vegas

[MilkRam]

anyone gonna be in vegas next wk?
or been there recently?

got some qns on playing conditions n stuff.

[Mike]

I was there last week....I always play downtown though. The strip seems too crowded and higher limits than I want to start with, unless I'm really winning.

[MilkRam]

what kind of stakes do you play
and where do they have a good game?
i play low green, and even with that i get crazy heat
any recommendations anyone?

[PJ]

MilkRam, I'm not current on Vegas conditions but want to know about the "heat" you mentioned. Since I am starting to play green more, could you describe some attention you've gotten from PC's lately?

[Mike]

I play a 10, 15, 20, 25, progression most of the time. If I get past a 5 or 6 hundred dollar streak, I'll double that. When I get bored with that I'll count, but I have the attention span of a 6 year old so, I only play a double deck pitch game. I found that Fitzgeralds has alot of dd tables so I play there or wherever I find a decent dealer and table downtown. I like to be able to change tables at the 4 loss quit point and like the way I can change casinos easily on Fremont St. I've done fairly well there at times and in Laughlin, as well. As much as I've won or lost in a setting or had a wild bet margin, I've never gotten any heat before, never. In the rare occasion that I've been up enough to play black, Ive done so flat betting and only have had a pit boss watch for a while, then offer a nice comp.

[MilkRam]

yo PJ
hit me up on AIM: Milkram
coz stuff i want to discuss might be a lil' sensitive for the board

[MilkRam]

thx for the report mike
however i don't use progressions
i count

upgraded from hi-lo to renzey's mentor, got all 79 indices down =)
but the heat is horrible downtown
ttz my major concern
pitbosses watch me like a hawk
and the checks play on any $100 bet (4 unit) is bound to give away my betting pattern after awhile.

what really bugs me is how the downtown places start hawking the moment i start playing base units of 25s
i suppose that isn't too common downtown

[Grifter]

MilkRam - You might try combining a quick ramping positive progression with your count as cover to lessen or eliminate the heat. Or playing two spots with a $10 base unit should also help......and yes, a quarter base unit will get you 'noticed' in most stores downtown.

Regards.....Grifter

[MilkRam]

hrmm sounds like an idea
i wonder how much of my advantage i'm giving away though
especially @ shoe games
coz counters depend on the opportunity to bet up when the count is high
by ramping up there will be repeated cases of underbetting
which is a common pitfall for the counter who ramps up the base unit without sufficient psychological preparation or bankroll.

[Grifter]

MilkRam - I don't play shoe games so I don't know, but I figure it is costing me about 0.1+ in pitch games.......Yes, ramping is a concern when you first sit down, but once you establish your progression play and the pit is used to seeing the higher bets you can start 'fudging' on your progression when you need to.......Grifter

[MilkRam]

actually i don't play shoe either
double deck rox!

yes i can see how that kind of ramping would work, start with a lil bit of ramping
then start getting "confused" and randomly bet up

[Ray]

Milkram- I would play 2 hands at 70% over a progression because I think
your going to have trouble keeping up with your bet. If you find a $10 pitch game and your norm is green go with two hnds at 15 or 20; at two
green go with two at 35 and so on. If the limit is 25, then play one until
the count calls for two units, etc. This don't look like a bet spread and you
will have more money in the game when you have the advantage. The
one question that comes to mind is: Do you have enough hands in double
deck for the complimentary/covariance effect to average out your variance so that it's equal to one. I play shoe games this way because
it is billed as a good alternative to backcounting.

Ray

[Grifter]

Ray - Are you using Walter's progression?.....Or is not, can you share what you are using?......If I know this, I can respond to your post above.

Grif'

[Ray]

Grifter- No I never play a progression. Normally your bet spread is
some multiple of the base unit and that is a dead give away. Playing
two at 70% don't look like a bet spread. So you say: my bet is going
to be equal to 70% of what the count calls for, but for two hands.

There is a good article on this method at BJMATH and it applies to shoe
games which are very different from DD.....so I have questions.

If you want I'll try to find it for you....

Ray

[Grifter]

Ray - If the article is talking about variance/covariance, 70%, etc., etc., nope don't look it up for me. I've been using that with a count and plus counts 'forever'......BUT, if the article is addressing progressions and a count....PLEASE look it up. I have been working (mainly by myself) for about ten years to come up with something that really works well.

Take a look at it yourself, sometime.......The cover is great, and if done properly obtaining your required spread is not a problem; at least for two deck, I'm not sure about six but I do have a way to do that I developed for another guy.

Grifter

[Ray]

Grif- nope, nothing about prog's.....may take a look later at your stuff...

Cheers

[Grifter]

Ray - Thanks for looking.....Anytime you want to take a look let me know. Nothing magic, just another way to play with a count....Grif'