Hey, I have a dumb question...
  • Ok, if the count is VERY favorable (well above the key count) and you get delt Q,Q or J,J or K,K or 10,10 would you split those??? Typically you wouldn't because others at the table would crusify you. But little do they know we are counting (or do they know anything at all hahaha). So what would you do? I would assume if you had a good shoe and the count was like +7 or +10 it wouldnt hurt to split those hands? Right??? Yes? No?
  • i use Fred Renzeys Kiss III count and the indices say split 10's if the count is 29 or higher,however,you might not want to do that 'cuz you're kinda screaming loud and clear "I'M A COUNTER", especially when you haven't been splitting 10's previously.

  • Well in that case I would try and disguise my play by saying something ameturish hahaha. OR if I am on a "winning streak" I would say "I'm feeling lucky... splittem anyway!"lol.

    You see I hate the casinos because they don't like to be beat but when they blindly rob the typical uneducated player then that seems to be morally ok with them. So I will do anything that will work and disguise it if I have to if that will help to beat them at their game.

    Afterall when using your couning system how often do you get counts of +29 or greater? So I say screw it and splittem if indeed it is advisable according to a proven system. Then play the rest of the shoe and leave if worried about the casino picking up on your game.
  • There's no good answer to the "should I split 10's?" question. It is not a simple issue.

    1. It attracts attention, and computer software used to evaluate your play later will lock onto that easily.

    2. At times, ploppies are splitting 10's, and if you can "blend in" then you might get away with it repeatedly with no notice from the pit at all.

    3. I do it myself, but it is often my "last hand" if it works out, so I "cut and run". Some casinos have dealers that will announce you to the pit "splitting 10's" or "doubling a hard 12" or other such unusual plays. Sort of like the more common "cheques play" when your bet jumps significantly.

    So whether it is something you can use and get away with depends on how you comport yourself in general, which is true for much of what a counter does at the table. There's nothing better than to "think" a few seconds and have someone shout over your shoulder "split them bitches". If the count is right, that's the time... :)
  • Ok cool. "Split those bitches~!" hahahaha.
  • I don't think splitting tens is a good idea in DD pitch games. They are usually
    higher limit, watched closer and the opportunity occurs more often. Shoe
    games are a different story. Its just too good of a return to pass-up. Say
    you had a +4 against the dealer 6 at a low limit table, split. But, put your act
    into high gear with: I'm on a role, the dealer has a bust hand, why not, etc,etc etc.
  • Ray - I have to disagree with you on splitting tens in six deck. The play is just too noticeable. As experienced as you are, you remember the old, old saying, "Only idiots and card counters split 10's".

    SSR - "I do it myself, but it is often my ....." Amazing that you make that play "often". Given your hours played and the probability of that hand, you should only be seeing it about once a year, maybe twice.

  • only novices and advanced players split 10's-interesting dichotomy,but so true!
  • Grifter- To each his own...but I will say that it depends on the temperature
    more than anything. But,If you split tens with 8-10 units, you're a dead duck
    heat or no heat.
  • Grifter:

    10's vs 6 at a TC of +4 or better only twice a year?

    Maybe we are mis-communicating. I play about 2 weeks a year in Vegas. I generally play2-3 weekends a month on the MS coast, although since September 05, that has ceased.

    10-10 ought to happen almost 10% of the time. against a dealer 6 up, about 1% of the time (rounding off of course, but close enough for the moment). So once an hour, a little more if you play heads up and fast. How many +4's do you see in a DD game in an hour. I see a bunch. I don't have CVCX handy so I'll make a wild guess and say that 5% of the hands have a TC of +4 or better. So once every 20 hours that ought to happen, and standard deviation can swing that in either direction significantly. In a week at Vegas, I'd expect to see that happen a couple of times. In a weekend on the coast I'd also expect it to happen at least once.

    Finally, notice I did not say "I make that play often". I said "often, when I make that play, it is my last play of the session." _big_ difference in the two statements, and I made the latter, not the former. My point was simply that when I do this, I bail out before any extra attention can come my way. In fact, I do this _almost_ 100% of the time in DD games. Unless there is an idiot at the table making all sorts of wild plays (splitting 10's, doubling 12 against 6, etc, then I might "join in with the spirit of things" and split 10's without leaving.

    I try to trust my gut here, and if the play seems to attract no attention at all, because it is common, then I'm only too happy to take advantage of a play that I would not make normally unless I was ready to leave. But I have played at tables where things were so wild and wooly that most anything went and the dealer and pit just ignored it all as nonsense. Sometimes others at the table can help hide you. AA vs 6. "double"? Not me. But I've seen it happen and it makes some of the common CC index plays seem mild.

    I also suspect that betting level determines the "interest" in that play by the pit. My usual $50 big bet, or sometimes $100-$200 big bet playing quarters goes unnoticed where there are $100 min players betting purple/yellow at times... Shoot, the MGM won't even rate your play unless you have a min $25 bet...

    Hope that clears up what I meant...
  • O.K., I'll give you 3 or 4 times a year if you want.....You posted previously that you played 100-150 hours a year; but not this year.......(and you don't need CVBX. I did it on a 3x3 postit note.)

  • I simply wasn't sure about the percentage of the time the TC is >= 4. I know about 1/3 of the time it is +1 or higher, but CVCX will tell me exactly how often the TC gets to +4 and beyond for the specific games I tend to play.

    And yes, it looks like 150-200 is going to be a pipe dream for this year. Going to try for my first MS coast session next weekend, but it might be a bust depending on the unknown quality and quantity of the games. Wish I owned a helicopter so I could get to Tunica since their games are very good, but they are off in the corner of nowhere from me...
  • CVBX = I give, can't figure this one out.
  • he meant CVCX. It is a software blackjack simulator you can buy from www.qfit.com. It will tell you things like optimal betting ramp for a specific game and card counting strategy, etc...

    It comes from "chapter X" which is in Blackjack Attack 3, this is the software Norm/Don used to produce the data in the book.
  • Thanks for explaining. Angelina
  • stainless steel rat said:
    Shoot, the MGM won't even rate your play unless you have a min $25 bet...

    Yeah I know! Doesn't that stink royally?! It has been like that for quite a long time. Plus some places in Vegas won't let you play 2 hands at a time unless your minimum bet is atleast $25. In Atlantic City they don't care...they rate you no matter if you bet as little as $10 a hand. But then again all their games stink anyways haha.

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