Nice Trip
  • I recently had a really interesting trip to an upstate NY casino. This casino was so cheap that it removed all the mirrors out of the dealers blackjack checkpoints, because the lease on these mirror devices was raised to $5 per table. So instead the dealers had to bend the cards upward to peek if they had blackjack. Needless to say that after a couple of hours of doing this it became pretty obvious which cards were tens or aces by the warp to them. So if say the dealer had an upcard of 6 and a warped card underneath, it would be fairly safe to assume he had either an ace or ten in the hole, and you could vary your strategy with this information. To add to this, they typed a small A,J,Q K, or ten in the corners of the card the letter or number matched. This was done to try to help the dealer not have to bend the cards so much to look for blackjack. What it did do was open up one of the most lucrative cut card placement games we've ever had. They did try to cover the back card, but the slightest movement by the dealer revealed the value symbol typed on the corner of the card. I play with a team, and it got to the point where we stopped counting and just took over a couple of tables and just played a cut game. We had about a 75% success rate on our large bets made on the "steered" card. On top of that a lot of these tables had automatic shufflers (not continuos shufflers) so the amount of hands we could play this way was greatly increased. So much so we cut our trip short because we felt our winning of the large bets might become noticeable. So instead of being too greedy we got the hell out of Dodge. Even still it was one of the most profitable trips we've ever had. So if any players live or are planning to visit the northeast, the name of the casino is The Turning Stone. I don't think it will be too long before they replace those mirrors or maybe get some other device for checking blackjacks, but until then you can play an incredible advantage game there if you know how.
  • I'm relatively new to blackjack. I've been playing about 3 yrs and just started to count using the hi lo method about 6 months ago. I have some questions regarding Bojacks post. First, what is a cut card placement game? Second, what do you mean by steered card? And how do you achieve a 75% winning percentage on your large bets? I've only been to the casino about 6 times since I've been counting but even with my limited experience that percentage seems way too high. I live in NY so if this casino is really that good to play i'd like to give it a shot. Thanks
  • The cut card placement game is basically seeing the back card of the shoe. If its a card that you want, you than cut it into play and "steer" it by counting down how many cards until it comes out, and by playing your hands accordingly to land it in the hand that you expect it to be. I described it in more depth in the thread "A.C. really isn't that bad" You might have to look back on the display options about 2 months to find it, but after reading it, it should make what I just said make more sense. As far as a 75% winning rate on large bets, that would be pretty impossible if you were just counting. Even with the cut game its very lucky, but alot more probable. You see with the cut game you're either purposely putting aces or tens in your hand, or putting bust cards in the dealers hand. If you play a strong cut game you can give yourself anywhere from a 13% advantage to a potential 100% advantage. 100% coming when you place a ten as the dealers draw card, and he needs to draw on something that will definitely bust him. It is a greatly profitable technique, but please remember you need to practice it alot, because if played badly it could bankrupt your bankroll. The only obstacle with the cut game is you really need a partner to play it properly. I welcome any questions on this subject, because I feel anyone that wants to be an advantage player should have this technique to gain a real advantage.
  • I read the posts in the AC isnt that bad thread and I gotta say this cut game stuff sounds great. Just a couple questions. I know you're looking to see the back card of the shoe, but how common is it that you can see it if they're covering it. Do you have a special way to see the back card? How can you practice this? I have a couple of buddies that play blackjack but don't count. It sounds like with this system we could play this without them having to learn how to count. Is this true? Thanks for any info.
  • What you need to do when scouting out a cut game is look for sloppy dealers. Also look for dealers with smaller hands that can't control the shoe as easy. Watch for a while, notice how they move the shoe for the players cut. Take note where the best place to sit would be to see the back of the shoe. Keep your eyes on the back corners, thats where you'll see it, and it will only be for a split second, but thats all you'll need. Also remember its best to play this late night or early morning so you and your partner or partners can control a table. To practice seeing a card, place a card on top of another and just slightly show the underneath card. Practice from all angles, get used to identifying a card without seeing all of the number or symbol. Do it with every card so you get know what they all look like. Most important, practice the cut so you know how many cards are in the cuts that you make. Then practice manipulating the hands you play to land the chosen card where you want it. Try to get a feel of how many hands you'll have to play to get the card to land in the right spot. And get used to adjusting your play as the card gets close. You may have to hit something you normally wouldn't, or stand on something you normally would hit. But make sure those bad plays aren't blatantly obvious, just basic strategy mistakes. You don't have to be a counter to play this but I suggest learning to so that after your card comes out you can play the rest of the shoe wisely and at an advantage if possible. Its best to have one person count down the cut and another to keep the count of the shoe. This way you can maximize your potential and not miss out on any other good betting oppurtunities after the cut is done.
  • I wonder if Bojack1 will be returning to that upstae ny casino????????
  • I know I will be heading up there as soon as possible. Bojack, how much practicing does it normally take to get this cut game down? I also read to put up 1/4 of your bankroll if I'm planning to land an ace in my hand. Does that mean what I have for the session, or what I have total? It seems like alot for one bet. Could you please clarify this for me. Thanks
  • I can't tell you how long it will take to really learn this technique. All I can tell you is do not by any means use this until you are very accurate in every aspect of it. As far as bankroll goes, I do not have session bankrolls. There is only one bankroll that we use, and all our betting and strategies are based on that. As for betting 1/4 of your bankroll that is totally dependant on how large it is. Put it this way, by landing an ace in your hand, for that one hand you have a 51% advantage. Equal to a true count of 25 with good rules. With your hi lo method how much would you bet on that? Quite a bit I would hope. You could also put up buffer bets on either side of your expected hand in case your slightly off to make sure you don't give your card to the dealer. I could get into actual playing stats from my last trip to show how it works if anyone is interested. If you are just send me a private message and I'll get into more details. I'm not sure if everybody else might be bored by all this by now. Good Luck. and practice, practice, practice.
  • We're heading up to The Turning Stone this weekend. Me and 2 buddies, and we got a 3000 dollar bankroll between us. We've been practicing alot. 12 hours last weekend, and between 2 and 3 hours every night since. we're doing very good with the cut game and I can't wait to try it. Just wondering Bojack, are you heading up there any time soon? I private messaged you but haven't heard back, just wondering if you got it. Fill you in when we get back.
  • Booker, I wish you well on your trip up there. Be careful, even though it seems like you're practicing alot its only been about a week. I suggest being conservative with your cut game the first few times to make sure your on. I will be heading up there again, but I never like to announce my arrival, you never know who might be paying attention to these posts. And no, I have not received your private message so thats why I have not responded. Good Luck
  • Let me just start by saying this was the best gambling experience of my life! We more than doubled our bankroll! We got to the casino about 8 pm friday night. We couldn't get any tables to ourselves until about 2:30 in the morning. By that time we were down about 600 dollars. But we noticed we could usually see the back card of shoe but until we could get a table to ourselves it was too hard to steer the card to our hands consistently. When we finally got the table to ourselves it was great. The first cut we were careful and only bet $30, until that time we were usually betting on average $10. We hit it by steering a 10 and we made a 19 with the hand. the dealer busted and we won. For the next 2 hours we did this and won back our 600 plus another 300. We were now putting up 50 and 100 up on the key hands, and 25 on most of the others. The next night we got really aggressive and was putting up 300 to 400 on the key hands. We won $2800 that night. Sunday morning we won another $200 and left. What an incredible rush to play this way. We won $3300 and after a couple of hours of doing this there was no doubt in my mind we were walking out of this casino a winner. This system is awsome, I can't wait to do it again. Now we have a bankroll over $6000 so it should be even better next time. Anyone reading this you would be a fool not to try this. Bojack I don't know who you are but if you've been doing this as long as you say you must be a wealthy man. Thanks for the tips!
  • I've been wondering something since I got back from my last trip to the casino. I do believe that counting is a way to gain an advantage on the casinos. I also believe its sometimes hard to even notice an advantage even when you have one. I mean even with a good count there is still almost the same chance of losing as there is for winning. With the technique I just applied at the casino last weekend there was such a confident, almost sure feeling of advantage that I was never hesitant to throw out the big bets. Why don't we talk more on this forum about these type of playing strategies? I mean getting a 2% advantage with counting is good, and believe me I'll take it, but getting a 50% advantage knowing you have an ace or ten to work with even before you bet is what we all dream about. I think techniques like these should be viewed as serious if not more than all the math theories. Its just my opinion, I know I'm just a novice compared to most, but its a very powerful way to play, and so far so good.
  • The problem here Booker is there are some people who consider these type of techniques cheating. Of course I myself do not, nor do some very respected authorities such as Stanford Wong and Arnold Snyder. Along with counting they have been very avid supporters of this kind of play. By the same token I know Fred Renzey feels differently about this matter. I'm quite sure he sees it as cheating. So its something not many people really get into because it can be a controversial subject. I myself have no problem with using it, speaking about it, or teaching someone how to do it. In my opinion the average person who trys to play an advantage game with just counting will see such small or no results that they will quit before they really grasp it. Don't get me wrong I am a firm believer in counting, I would not play blackjack without that knowledge. But most recently people fell in love with counting because they heard some college kids took the casinos for millions counting cards. It spawned all types of books on counting and winning at blackjack. Truth be told, you will never win a million dollars counting cards unless you have damn near a million to start with. If you want a hobby, count cards and track yourself and if you stick with it you should see some progress down the road. If you want to aggressively make some money you might want to incorporate some other techniques into your blackjack arsenal. Bottom line is, you get caught playing some sort of card placement game-which by the way is different than hole carding- by the casino and you will get asked to leave, you get caught counting,or even suspected of it, you will also get asked to leave. The casino sees it the same. Its up to you as an adult what decision you want to make. In the eyes of the casino all advantage players are cheaters.
  • I'm with you Bojack. If there gonna throw you out for trying to get an advantage you might as well try to get a real one and make some money. Most people who know anything about the MIT teams know they made their money so many other ways than just counting. But you're right, after the stories about them came out all these how to beat the casinos by counting cards books came out. What a bummer it would be to find out those famous teams made a majority of thers money through other methods beside counting. Most of the old time players/authors like you mentioned( Stanford Wong,Arnold Snyder) have their own versions of alternate ways of playing other than counting. They're what I would call true advantage players, and very respected in blackjack circles. I'll tend to stick with the old school, they may get old but they still got style. And for all you finger pointers that think any advantage play other than counting is cheating, if you been counting 15 yrs or less I gaurantee its because you read a book on counting after you heard about the MIT teams. If they're your inspiration you better learn some more ways to play because counting won't cut it on its own. Unless you got a couple of hundred thousand dollars for a bankroll of course.

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