CSM better than hand suffle for non counter?
  • any one agree that

    CSM get less house edge , so if not a counter

    playing CSM is better ?

    what s the reason? coz we can get more pic ?
  • I think it'd be the same edge for both because both, the house and you, have the same pick.. the whole 6 decks.

    But why use CSM's ? Help the counters by not supporting those stupid machines.
  • Beyond...seeing your a senior member I'm surprised that you even play the CSM's. I would assume you will eventually advance your play to counting and this would not only help counters but also your future plans.

    Take care, Jim
  • CSMs mean more hands per hour.More hands played when the house has an edge means more money lost.
  • pcristiani said:
    I think it'd be the same edge for both because both, the house and you, have the same pick.. the whole 6 decks.

    But why use CSM's ? Help the counters by not supporting those stupid machines.


    If you go to the wizard's web site (among others) it turns out that a CSM is fractionally better per hand for the non-counter, since there is a reduced effect from removal as cards are re-entered into the game quickly. But, looking at it practically, it is worse. Because you play more hands per hour at a slightly reduced house edge, but the overall effect is to whittle your bankroll away more quickly.

    CSMs are not the answer, they are the question. "no" is the answer...
  • actually u all just say NO to all kind of gambling since all is negative game

    and the fact is that there is very few hand suffling game over the world

    at least i never found it

    or i see it in some online casino but they cut the deck before or on the half , i think we still cannot get any house edge by counting , right ?
  • beyond14 said:
    actually u all just say NO to all kind of gambling since all is negative game

    and the fact is that there is very few hand suffling game over the world

    at least i never found it

    or i see it in some online casino but they cut the deck before or on the half , i think we still cannot get any house edge by counting , right ?


    Oh great another one of these posts. Most of the casinos I've ever played at have no CSM's. The ones that do have them I avoid them. You are wrong about getting a edge in counting. There are a lot of good games at least in the U.S. you just have to find them.
    -Cass
  • I don't see many hand shuffles left out in
    Vegas.They use auto-shufflers,not CSMs.
  • Beyond 14...Do you think you would lose less money if, for example, you stopped playing a six deck shoe game half way through with a high negative count? Or, do you think you chances of winning will remain the same. Personallly I enjoy entering a six deck game at the half way mark, with a high count, than starting at a new shoe.
  • NYB said:
    I don't see many hand shuffles left out in
    Vegas.They use auto-shufflers,not CSMs.


    Most tables at casinos with good 6 deck games do not use auto shufflers either. MGM, Mandalay Bay, Tropicana, Monte Carlo, Wynn etc, you will find some auto and CSMs but the good games (and from $10 up) are almost all hand shuffled.

    ihate17
  • Perhaps I'm hanging out downtown too much.
  • NYB said:
    Perhaps I'm hanging out downtown too much.


    If I owned a casino downtown, based upon the number of breakin dealers, I would probably use not CSM's but shuffle machines also.
    Most of the better games on the strip are the 6 deck shoes with .26-.33% house edge. The casinos that offer this game also offer poorer games and what they often do is put machines at the tables of the worst games and hand shuffle the better games and the limits are not always high. At the MGM for instance, when they are not busy, at the 4th or 5th pit in, you can easily find a $10 game, hand shuffled, dealer stays on soft17, split to 4 hands, double after split, double on any 2 cards and resplit aces. At 5AM on a Thursaday morning, I saw it at $5, but friday night it was $25. But at the first pit, there were shuffle machines at the 6/5 tables.
    Same goes for Monte Carlo, $15 at Mandalay Bay and $25 at Trop.
    A few good games mid strip also and a few good double deck games also but the limit on these are higher.

    ihate17

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