• Yesterday-ploppy Sits Down,polite Ploppy,but Still A Ploppy-splits His 10's,gets Another 10,splits 10's Again,gets Another 10 And Splits Them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I Stop Watching,look At The Ceiling,keep Repeating To Myself"what Other Players Do Don't Affect Me."
    Dealer Wpould Have Gotten One Of Those 10's And Busted But Didn't Took His Hit And Beat Us All!
    He Had 4 10's Laying Side By Side....................what Other Players Do Doen't Affect Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • PROGRESSIONIST said:
    Yesterday-ploppy Sits Down,polite Ploppy,but Still A Ploppy-splits His 10's,gets Another 10,splits 10's Again,gets Another 10 And Splits Them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I Stop Watching,look At The Ceiling,keep Repeating To Myself"what Other Players Do Don't Affect Me."
    Dealer Wpould Have Gotten One Of Those 10's And Busted But Didn't Took His Hit And Beat Us All!
    He Had 4 10's Laying Side By Side....................what Other Players Do Doen't Affect Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    When that stuff happens, even though you know it evens out, it hurts and you plant it in your memory. What does not happen with many people is the remembering the times where a similar play might have helped you.

    I will take your word for the guy being a pure ploppy and not a counter but I have been known to split 10's but only at very select times. Not only does the count and the dealers up card have to call for it, but it needs to be near the time I plan to leave that casino and not return for an extended period of time. Reason, it always brings attention. The pit and eye will know you are either an expert or an idiot and now will start trying to figure out which one you are.

    Biggest hand I ever won.
    Playing with just one other player at a table in Vegas, a Japaneese Gent who gave the pit his passport for a players card, I have a max bet out with a pair of 9's vs a dealer stiff. I land up with 4 9's and 2 doubles, meaning 6 max bets on the table and I do not have a hand over 15. The gent at third base has a 4,2 and he stays??? Dealer tells him he should hit several times, pit watching the table also tells him to hit and that he can not bust, but he insists and stays. Result, dealer busts. When the first couple of cards are dealt on the next hand, I quickly figure the dealer makes 19 and kills me if the guy hit. Now, I know it could have just as easily worked out the other way and that is my point.

    Your guy could have split his 10's and taken 2 cards that would have made the dealers hand and left him with a bust card, but this time it happened the other way. Unless you know the dealers hole card and the order of the cards to be dealt, these guys really only are hurting themselves.

    ihate17
  • this is true-i guess-that other players' style of play doesn't ultimately affect your hands, but it hurts none-the-less when a "novice" stays on 15 or 16 against a dealer's face which lets the dealer draw-out to beat the table or when they split tens...it always seems to be etched into our memory.
  • ryno said:
    this is true-i guess-that other players' style of play doesn't ultimately affect your hands, but it hurts none-the-less when a "novice" stays on 15 or 16 against a dealer's face which lets the dealer draw-out to beat the table or when they split tens...it always seems to be etched into our memory.


    It shouldn't,and thats one of the first things you need to learn.
  • NYB said:
    It shouldn't,and thats one of the first things you need to learn.



    right.

    after a round is played, you will find many cases where everyone played perfectly and the dealer still drew a 5-card 21. And if you watch carefully, you will see rounds where the dealer wins no matter whether each player plays perfect BS or plays like a ploppy. The cards are just stacked in the deck so that the table has no way out of a loss. The bad thing is, the game is simple enough so that after each round, when you look at the cards dealt, you could find a way to let the table win / dealer lose. And of course, if we could do the "rain man" trick the game would not last a week. Would be an interesting study to randomly shuffle a shoe, and then for each round, knowing all the cards coming and the order they are in, what that would do the table as a whole...
  • Just how bad a play is splitting tens, say for example against a 6? I noticed that they don't even have to match, they offered to let me split a Jack and King last time I played.
  • Knox said:
    Just how bad a play is splitting tens, say for example against a 6? I noticed that they don't even have to match, they offered to let me split a Jack and King last time I played.


    10-10 vs 6 has an EV of .70 of the hands when you stand, when you split, your ev is .47, all assuming you are not counting cards and using a BS departure index for this play. Once you reach the departure index, the split EV is higher than the stand EV. The problem is it will attract unwanted attention unless you have a good act or leave shortly after pulling this out of your hat...
  • Even though the EV is relatively close, it seems to me that the count has to be extremely high to split 10s. I think it is mostly a gimmick when you want to clear out a table or something.
  • Knox said:
    Even though the EV is relatively close, it seems to me that the count has to be extremely high to split 10s. I think it is mostly a gimmick when you want to clear out a table or something.



    I do this in three flavors:

    (1) count is at or above the point where splitting 10's is a better play than standing (10-10 vs 6 splits at +4 and above) and I am fixing to leave as I have been playing for almost my one hour session limit. I might split 10's and then bail out before too much attention shows up.

    (2) count is at or above the point (as above) and we have some idiots at the table that split 10's every time you turn around. Had this happen at the IP in Biloxi last year before Katrina. TC was +6, and I really wanted to split a pair of 10's, but didn't want to have to leave. This guy playing was very loud, shouting "monkey" each time he doubled on a 10 or 11 (callint for a 10, AKA "monkey" in Baccarat). I looked at him quizically, he said "split those bitches (I had two queens I think) so I instantly did, and ended up with 4 splits and 4 wins and nobody in the pit gave it a second glance...

    (3) obnoxious player is continually deriding players at the table. Ridiculing my decision to hit 12 vs 3 (the dealer has a bust card, man...) or my A7 vs 9 (you have a 18, man...) and so forth. Splitting 10's or even 5's (against a dealer 6 for example) can be a decent play and clear the table of idiots at the same time... Then you wink at the dealer, say "I thought that would run 'im off" and keep playing at a much less crowded table (even better if it is now heads-up).

    Splitting 10's is a huge moneymaker, but it is also a huge attention-getter. Used sparingly it can be played without much risk... but be careful..
  • stainless steel rat said:
    I do this in three flavors:

    (1) count is at or above the point where splitting 10's is a better play than standing (10-10 vs 6 splits at +4 and above) and I am fixing to leave as I have been playing for almost my one hour session limit. I might split 10's and then bail out before too much attention shows up.

    (2) count is at or above the point (as above) and we have some idiots at the table that split 10's every time you turn around. Had this happen at the IP in Biloxi last year before Katrina. TC was +6, and I really wanted to split a pair of 10's, but didn't want to have to leave. This guy playing was very loud, shouting "monkey" each time he doubled on a 10 or 11 (callint for a 10, AKA "monkey" in Baccarat). I looked at him quizically, he said "split those bitches (I had two queens I think) so I instantly did, and ended up with 4 splits and 4 wins and nobody in the pit gave it a second glance...

    (3) obnoxious player is continually deriding players at the table. Ridiculing my decision to hit 12 vs 3 (the dealer has a bust card, man...) or my A7 vs 9 (you have a 18, man...) and so forth. Splitting 10's or even 5's (against a dealer 6 for example) can be a decent play and clear the table of idiots at the same time... Then you wink at the dealer, say "I thought that would run 'im off" and keep playing at a much less crowded table (even better if it is now heads-up).

    Splitting 10's is a huge moneymaker, but it is also a huge attention-getter. Used sparingly it can be played without much risk... but be careful..


    Does you know the index play to split 10s using KO?
  • Sorry, but no. But then KO is not true-counted and doesn't use as many index plays since the index would vary based on how many decks remain to approximate that +4. Running count (unbalanced) systems have a "pivot point" set so that when you reach it, you have an actual advantage in the game. But to get into BS departures, looking at the info I have, those particular kinds of indices are not given. The classics are (doubling and hitting or standing) but not splitting...
  • I think the 10 splitting is probably an index I can live without, but I'll check the book when I get home.
  • Knox said:
    I think the 10 splitting is probably an index I can live without, but I'll check the book when I get home.



    The advantage for this index is pretty big. And it happens frequently enough to at least give you the opportunity with some regularity. You just have to get away with it, which is where the cat-and-mouse starts and blackjack ends.

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