BJ the best and worst game for the player!!!
  • Blackjack can have the worst odds in the casino if the player does not know what he or she is doing. If you have a player that never busts he has a disadvantage of around 6%. If you have a player who spilts 4's he cost him self more money. A player who will always insure a good hand or a blackjack is at an even further disadvantage. Then there a player who won't hit soft 17 and under because they think that they will take the dealer's bust card. With really poor play blackjack could have a house a advantage of 15%. If you where to never look at your cards and just tuck them this would be the case.
    People who don't split 8's give up 56% for that one hand.

    Blackjack for above average players to good players is differen't they look at there cards plus the dealers up card and make the best possible decision for the senario and have an average disadvantage of .5%.
  • Some games in the casino are decision driven a lot, some by a small amount and some not at all.
    You play the slot, you press the button and it is done. You put your bet on a number in roulette and you are done. In VP you make decisions also but in blackjack your decisions can be a huge factor in your results.
    Understand that the casinos know this and understand this. That is why there is a three prong rating system for players at many casinos...the worse you play, the more they make, so the more comps they give you. That is why the casino can offer you a game with a house advantage so low that if everyone played basic strategy perfectly the game would no longer exist.

    So for Learningtocount, in order for your job to continue to exist, you really need those bad players who bring up the house edge and enable that casino to continue to employ you.

    For myself, I need those same players so your casino can make enough money and not miss my little skim.

    ihate17
  • Most casinos comp you on how much you gamble how much your average bet is and how long you play. The comps are so minimal for the person that plays a bad game of blackjack that they could walk into a casino play a terrible game of blackjack lose a $1,000 and maybe get $5 back in comps.
  • learningtocount said:
    Most casinos comp you on how much you gamble how much your average bet is and how long you play.


    The comp procedure will depend on the casino. Many casinos will assume a standard 2% or similar loss rate based on their hold, although a few, like MGM and Caesars (before the buyout) would have a "Skill Level" box on their player rating slips. The box will usually have three choices like B (Basic), G (General), and S (Soft) for the floorman to fill out based on your play. I once talked an MGM employee into giving me my rating slip and it had a "Skill Level" box with S, M, H and a "Game Speed" box with S, M, F. It also had a check-box labeled “Surrenders Properly” with a Yes/No choice. All comps for table games (Pia Gow and Baccarat too!) were based on the floorman’s judgment.

    As you can guess, the floorman’s judgment is probably far off the mark in most cases. Frankly, I don’t think those detailed rating slips help gauge the player’s skill level at all but many casinos use them nonetheless. From what I understand it is fairly standard to return about 40% of a player’s estimated loss in comps. However, using a few clever techniques can easily have the floorman rating you much higher than you should be. Max Rubin and Ian Anderson covered this topic very well.

    -Sonny-
  • learningtocount said:
    Blackjack can have the worst odds in the casino if the player does not know what he or she is doing…With really poor play blackjack could have a house a advantage of 15%.


    That’s exactly right, but it would be pretty tough to play that badly. Griffin had a section in TOB (p.150) called “The World’s Worst Blackjack Player” where he estimated the house edge against a player who:

    Always insures a BJ_______________0.01%
    Always insures T,T________________0.05
    Always insures anything____________0.23
    Stand on stiffs against high card_____3.0
    Never double down________________3.2
    Double T vs. T or A________________1.6
    Always split and resplit T,T__________0.05
    Always split 4,4 and 5,5____________8.0
    Other incorrect pair splits___________0.4
    Failure to hit S17__________________0.2
    Failure to hit S18 vs. 9 or T_________0.3
    Failure to hit A,small_______________2.0

    His conclusion: “Hence it seems unlikely that any but the deliberately destructive could give the house more than a 15% edge. This is only a little more than half the keno vigorish of 26%: the dumbest blackjack player is twice as smart as any keno player!”

    His BJ survey in 1987 showed that the average player lost at about a 2% rate, although New Jersey players were about 0.5% more accurate than Nevada players. “The players misplayed about one hand in every 6.5…” It always seems like more when your sitting next to them though! =)

    -Sonny-
  • learningtocount said:
    Blackjack can have the worst odds in the casino if the player does not know what he or she is doing. If you have a player who spilts 4's he cost him self more money.


    Actually when DAS (double after split) is allowed, you should split 4s against 5 or 6. The "never split 4s, 5s, or 10s" rule comes from a generic basic strategy table that assumes no DAS.

    learningtocount said:
    People who don't split 8's give up 56% for that one hand.


    In a 4- or 6-deck game with surrender and dealer H17, the exception to "always split 8s" is surrender against a dealer Ace.

    I tried out this online basic strategy calculator and it seems accurate:

    http://www.online-casinos.com/blackjack/basic-strategy-calculator.php

    You should play with it a bit. I plan to print out the common rules variations to have them with me when I go to the Indiana casinos near Cinci. Apparently there are three of them, and at one time one offered a single deck game with S17, 3:2 BJ, DAS, a 0.15% player advantage using basic strategy! I doubt they still offer it, but we shall see soon enough (10/10 is when I go).
  • learningtocount said:
    Most casinos comp you on how much you gamble how much your average bet is and how long you play. The comps are so minimal for the person that plays a bad game of blackjack that they could walk into a casino play a terrible game of blackjack lose a $1,000 and maybe get $5 back in comps.


    Not if they've read Max Rubins book ,they won't.Learning to exploit a casinos comp system can result in an edge Sanford Wong can only dream about.

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