Wong Has Achieved Heaven on Earth
  • The "Blackjack" Premier issue of "All IN" magazine recently came out and Max Rubin authored an article on Barona Casino Resort in San Diego. "Barona Valley Ranch Resort & Casino in San Diego....the greatest blackjack joint in history." -Rubin

    Golf course that ranks with Pebble Beach and Spyglass, luxury suites, gormet restaurants, luxury spa, etc. Actually a place that I belong and Max Rubin dreams about. They have a "Hall of Blackjack Fame" that currently includes:
    Sandford Wong, Ed Thorpe, Ken Uston, Tommy Hyland and James Grosjean. All have received lifetime RFB that includes a lifetime of suites, golf, gormet meals, spa, etc. That's right...for the rest of their life. Two of the above actually stay there year round. The only requirement is they not play any of the games. No question I envy Wong for this privledge. Life is good and I'm living proof. Just like Bojack is living proof that card counting (he says) has also made his life just as comfortable. Good ol Max really sucked some *** writing this article. I'm sure he has his eyes on this wonderful prize at the end of the rainbow. Cheers, Your Friend Countfast...lol
  • countfast said:
    The "Blackjack" Premier issue of "All IN" magazine recently came out and Max Rubin authored an article on Barona Casino Resort in San Diego. "Barona Valley Ranch Resort & Casino in San Diego....the greatest blackjack joint in history." -Rubin


    Yes, Max has been affiliated with Barona for several years now. He even mentions it liberally in his book. Luckily his book is filled with enough great info that a few shameless promotions can be overlooked.

    This has been common knowledge since 2001. It seems like you’re just trying to stir up old trouble and insult anybody you can without knowing the whole story. Have you ever read his book? Have you ever met him? He is a great guy and a solid player. He also hosts the annual Blackjack Ball and hosts the annual Blackjack Halloween Ball. Have you ever been to either?


    countfast said:
    They have a "Hall of Blackjack Fame" that currently includes:
    Sandford Wong, Ed Thorpe, Ken Uston, Tommy Hyland and James Grosjean.


    And don’t forget Al Francesco, Peter Griffin and Arnold Snyder. The Hall of Fame has been around since 2003 and has been publishes every year in Blackjack Forum. Do you have any news that is less than 4 years old?

    countfast said:
    All have received lifetime RFB that includes a lifetime of suites, golf, gormet meals, spa, etc. That's right...for the rest of their life.


    That’s not a very good deal for Ken, is it? You’re aware that he’s been dead for almost 10 years now, right? And I don’t think Grosjean has to worry about it ever since he won those lawsuits against Imperial Palace, Caesar’s and Griffin Investigations. In fact, the Griffin Agency even had to file for bankruptcy after the lawsuit. Hmmm, maybe a big-shot businessman like you could get them back on their feet. Wouldn’t you just love to harass card counters for a living instead of doing it for free?

    -Sonny-
  • :grin: I find it amusing that the casino industry (Barona) would cater to the above mentioned authors with a "Wall of Fame." You would think Pete Rose would have had a better chance inducted than a lifetime of comps for telling people how to beat the casinos. Just goes to show you that they are in bed with the casinos with their card counting books, tapes, software,etc.
    When you think about it the casinos don't want everyone to run out of money in a day, just three days. As a big 'Thank You" for allowing people to stay alive longer they get rewarded. Only in America.

    Now get up and go to work while I have my tea looking out over the beach.
    Make sure you don't forget to take the garbage out and pick up the mail.

    Have a great day,

    Sand & Frolic
  • countfast said:
    :grin: I find it amusing that the casino industry (Barona) would cater to the above mentioned authors with a "Wall of Fame."


    What’s wrong with the casinos acknowledging (and simultaneously barring!) skillful players? Believe it or not, many casino execs (like Bill Zender, George Joseph, Max Rubin, Lawrence Revere, and many more) actually respect highly skilled players despite the fact that they have to discriminate against them. Many more, including most of the ones I mentioned, even count cards on the side so they know how much skill it takes.

    Having the wall also encourages bad players to keep playing. They see all the pros on the wall and think, “Yeah, I can beat the game too!” The majority of the time they can’t because they don’t learn how to play properly. They learn a worthless progression system or maybe learn to count cards half-assed or don’t even know proper BS. Other people, or so I’ve been told, are good players but choose to play terrible games (like 8-deckers) and therefore give up their advantage without knowing it. Anyone who wants to get the advantage can do it fairly easily, but very few people want to put in the time to it properly. The casinos are fully aware of that fact.

    The casinos have been averaging a 2-5% hold for decades now. They know that the money will come if they advertise their games (like the "Whopping 6:5 Blackjack Payouts" that Bally's had advertised on their sign). Likewise, Advantage Players have been averaging a 1-4% advantage for just as long. Without card counting, blackjack would have never become popular. Both sides are making a profit on each other’s backs.

    countfast said:
    Just goes to show you that they are in bed with the casinos with their card counting books, tapes, software,etc.


    Then why don’t the casinos sell their books and software in the gift shops? They don’t want intelligent players at the tables. Why else would the Griffin book be so big? It’s not full of cheaters, I can promise you that. It is filled with people who are skilled players. The industry survives on players who THINK they can beat the game but makes great efforts to weed out everyone who really can. Luckily for us, there are many more “wannabes” than actual APs. As long as the ploppies are losing at a rate of 2%, the card counters will be there winning it back 1% at a time.

    countfast said:
    As a big 'Thank You" for allowing people to stay alive longer they get rewarded. Only in America.


    So you’re saying that card counting allows “people to stay alive longer”? I thought you said that the game can’t be beat, but now you are saying that card counting works? Which is it? And why would the casinos want players to lose less money? After all, most players either play until they lose their stake or play for a certain amount of time. If the players are good then the casino will earn less money from the time conscious players and waste more time dealing to the “session bankroll” players. In either case, a lower win rate simply will not “pay the rent” on the blackjack seats. If everyone played proper BS then the game would not survive. The casinos would not be able to justify the dealer’s salaries, free drinks, abundant comps, and various other expenses associated with table games. What you suggest just doesn’t make sense.

    I have never heard of a casino that wanted all of their players to be smart. In fact, they make a point of catering to bad players, deceiving mediocre players (with alcohol, adrenaline, 6:5 payouts, inaccurate BS cards, etc.) and removing any skillful ones. It is ridiculous to say that casinos prefer educated players.

    countfast said:
    Make sure you don't forget to take the garbage out and pick up the mail.


    I keep taking out the garbage, but it keeps responding to my posts! =)

    -Sonny-
  • Sonny I just want to say excellent posts. Its a shame some people won't shed their ignorance in lieu of learning something. You have made some of the best arguments in the name of advantage play that I've ever seen. Along with references to many sources to prove and to educate the less informed. But it just seems its impossible to make rational points with irrational people.
    countfast I'm not sure why you want to post all the negative and mostly incorrect information on this board, but when you've been discredited in your rantings time and time again, maybe its time to check the attitude at the door and really try to learn something.

    By the way countfast, next time you see Kenny Uston ask him about his great comp package. Me thinks you don't want to run into him any time soon.
  • Concerning your first post, No, No, and NO.

    Second Post...Actually first part was an excellent evaluation. Second part you said I said card counting does not work. I think I said it will enable a person to break even. Go back and check the posts. Your always putting words into my mouth. You should stop that Sonny. LOL In addition, last year was the first year that the Vegas casino industry experienced non-gaming revenue surpassing gaming revenue. I'm sure part of this additional income was from patrons who didn't lose all their money their first session. And I can understand your last part of the post about the garbage problem. If this continues tell her to shut up.

    I almost forgot, there was something new...your fingers getting more exerise. Enjoy your day Sunny Boy. Almost forgot your statement about if everyone played perfect BS the game would not survive. I thought the casinos had a .05% advantage over BS players, and with the increase in non-gaming revenue continues they just may make it.
  • Bojack1 said:
    But it just seems its impossible to make rational points with irrational people.


    I'm afraid you're right. Countfast seems to have very strong opinions and no amount of logic or reasoning will change them. He's pretty proud of his business success but that doesn’t account for anything on a blackjack website. He’s running around trying to backcount 8-deck shoes and complaining that he can’t beat the game. That’s all we need to know.

    It’s just a pitty that he needs to insult other reputable players in order to stroke his ego and soften the effects of his own failure. I guess the best thing to do is ignore his ignorance and misinformation as best we can.

    -Sonny-
  • Thank God, and now go take out the garbage. I'll keep you in my prayers.
  • Bojack1 said:
    Sonny I just want to say excellent posts. Its a shame some people won't shed their ignorance in lieu of learning something. You have made some of the best arguments in the name of advantage play that I've ever seen. Along with references to many sources to prove and to educate the less informed. But it just seems its impossible to make rational points with irrational people.
    countfast I'm not sure why you want to post all the negative and mostly incorrect information on this board, but when you've been discredited in your rantings time and time again, maybe its time to check the attitude at the door and really try to learn something.

    By the way countfast, next time you see Kenny Uston ask him about his great comp package. Me thinks you don't want to run into him any time soon.



    I'm not sure, but there is a "sonny" that posts on other BJ boards. Sounds just like this one to me. We've exchanged comments, information, many times on these other sites, and he's always been highly helpful and is (the best I can tell as we have never met personally) highly skilled as well.

    All this assume "sonny" is the same person I know on the other fora of course...
  • stainless steel rat said:
    All this assume "sonny" is the same person I know on the other fora of course...


    Yup, that's me! I also post on Wong's site, Schlesinger's site, Ken Smith's site, John May's site, and occasionally Snyder's site. I was also a huge fan of Eliot Jacobson's site. I guess every site has at least one person like countfast. What a shame.

    Anyway, I appreciate your encouragement. I'm new to this site but I'll make it one of my regular stops now. Thanks guys.

    -Sonny-
  • Hey Sonny

    Where can a person find this site ?

    thnx
  • hey countslow

    Very sad how you have decided to trash people on this site. People who are very willing to help new players such as myself. Its not that I want to bother getting into exchanges with someone such as yourself, but rather hope that your 'virus' does not work its way thrue this site. Why dont you let it go, and just move on. I have already tasted success counting. I know it works, and I also know that having the advice and encouragement under my belt from AP's like Bojack, i'm on my way.
  • golfnut101 said:
    Hey Sonny

    Where can a person find this site ?

    thnx


    Here's a link:

    http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/blackjackcardcounterscafe/

    It is a Yahoo message board so it can be a little difficult to navigate, but there is some very good information hidden in there. It used to be much more active with several very talented players, but many of them have moved on. Still, I believe John checks the messages daily and is happy to respond to any questions.

    -Sonny-
  • Sonny said:
    Yup, that's me! I also post on Wong's site, Schlesinger's site, Ken Smith's site, John May's site, and occasionally Snyder's site. I was also a huge fan of Eliot Jacobson's site. I guess every site has at least one person like countfast. What a shame.

    Anyway, I appreciate your encouragement. I'm new to this site but I'll make it one of my regular stops now. Thanks guys.

    -Sonny-



    Glad to see you at another place. Of course, you will always encounter some naysayers, but that seems to be true most everywhere although SW's and AS's web sites seem to not get a lot of this "counting doesn't work" stuff any more...

    Now back to the regularly scheduled argument... :)
  • i'm a bit confused.
    They have beaches in Ohio? I know they have a river that caught fire,but beaches?

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