What's the best system to use?
  • I've been playing Blackjack professionally around the Asian casino circuit for nearly 3 years (1995-1998) before I took on another career. But I came back when internet casinos started out here in Manila last 2003. I was doing good since I practically caught the Blackjack trend system they use in the program, making out equivalents of $250-300 a day. Our government took interest in the market and replaced it with their own software, which only allows a 7% chance of winning so I went back to the live table games and took interest in the Blackjack variation called Pontoon. It's so popular here that Blackjack tables were all replaced by Pontoon. Government casinos here has 8 burnt cards at the start of an 8D shoe plus burnt cards every game and another before hitting for the dealer. No hole cards here. And Pontoon has the Tens removed from each deck. One American casino here even has no burnt and hole cards at all. Am using HI-Lo and Uston's APC plus shuffle tracking. I was having great games for 6 months in that American casino, raking equivalents of $1,200-2,500 a day and playing 3-4 times a week, till the Pit Bosses were told to take action on me. To lay low for a while, I went to play in government casinos. I frequently lose due to a lot of burnt cards and am having a hard time adjusting my play. Only edge I get is to shuffle track and wait for clumpings Could any of you guys tip me on which system would be best for Pontoon in that scenario? Thanks.
  • App...after the heat's off at American Casino how will you play this time? By the way, what is your next profession going to be?
  • If you are that good,come to Vegas.
  • I am a businessman, Jimpenn. I co-own the only training center for international-grade casino dealers here in the Philippines. It's basically new, actually. But it's doing okay. Couldn't say am that good NYB. Even as a professional player, I do lose still. Many times too, in fact. But the counting edge has my bankroll on the winning percentage overall. That's why am asking for advise from the better people here so I can improve my skills and my winnings as well. Vegas rules are a bit too tight for me. I would rather invite you guys over to Asia for a better deal. And the only reason I get noticed in casinos is the fact that most people here do not know BS. And the fact that if you are capable to bet maximum for several hands, they look up to you as a high roller instead of being suspected as a card counter. It is only in that particular American casino that I was tagged. Though in government-owned casinos, dealers are aware of my play but management won't take measures because the bosses don't care if they lose.
  • Good Luck and hope your BJ Trip will continue to be successful, and stay in touch letting us know how everything is going.
  • Thanks Jimpenn. Finding this site makes me feel at home, with real cardcounters to talk to. I just discovered one of the hotels here came to offer Blackjack again. Just one table though. but always too crowded. I came in to play today and lost an equivalent of $600. Double my limit.
  • No doubt in my mind you are well beyond your years in the business arena. This "licensed" training school could be your initial ticket if you can get it to work.
  • There's a great analysis of Pontoon (with the BS charts) here:

    http://wizardofodds.com/pontoon

    So why do you use both HiLo and the APC? What kind of shuffles do they have there? I've heard that a lot of Asian casinos use CSMs now.

    -Sonny-
  • Thanks Sonny. I haven't been doing enough research that I do not know a BS chart for Pontoon has already been out. Will review this and hope it does a lot of good. Will update you guys on its effective applications in the games here. I still apply HiLO and APC to the game as I found it a bit more comfortable to use. Yes, many, including our government casinos use CSM's. But the CSM's used here are just locally manufactured and results in just inverting the shoe. So the player's cut is crucial and shuffle tracking is more concise. Bad shoes come with the other players' methods of playing. The particular American casino I mentioned still uses manual shuffle and varies it every now and then from four point to 6 point shuffles with double riffle. cut is usually a deck behind but with me they put it slightly almost in the middle.
  • Thanks Jimpenn. Hopefully it will be.
  • You are losing because the game is completely different than blackjack and it has a higher house advantage. If the game takes out all the tens and it is the same as twenty one anyway you are starting at a count of negative 4 you will almost always be at a disadvantage. With 4 less tens per deck you will get far less blackjacks and the dealer will bust far less often even when showing a 5 or a 6!!!
  • Thanks LTC. Good advice. Will take all your advices and apply them. I shall provide you feedback on the results. I will try and play again in the American casino tonight and see how the adjustments and the new system works. Thanks guys.
  • The Pontoon BS did have a good effect. But I didn't stick to it entirely though. Combined with shuffle tracking, I made good the past 6 days I played, losing only two days. Always reached my quota. Thanks for the tip Sonny. Playing in the American casino again for the 7th day, by the way. It didn't matter now what action they take as long as I'm doing good.
  • Been playing Pontoon on an average of 4 days a week since February started. The turn out is quite well, having lost only twice and 3 days going home even. I always reach my daily quota of $500 for my capital of $1,000. I play 3-5 hours and use 1-8 spreads in a 6-deck shoe. Luck is doing so well for me these days that I'm thinking of concentrating on just playing. I am planning to build a $20,000 bankroll and just plan to go on a daily spree of $300-500 quota for the rest of my life. I'm teaching my wife and my bestfriend to count as well so I have more accurate reference when playing. If all goes well, this may be my retirement plan already.
  • What counting system are you using for Pontoon? I didn't know any had been developed.

    -Sonny-
  • Sonny said:
    What counting system are you using for Pontoon? I didn't know any had been developed.

    -Sonny-



    I think all you can do is use something like hi-lo, start the running count at -4 (assuming single deck), and hope like hell you see a + count somewhere along the way. Or even better - count the number of steps it takes to get out of that casino. :)
  • Sonny said:
    What counting system are you using for Pontoon? I didn't know any had been developed.

    -Sonny-


    No, none had been developed far as I know of Sonny. Am using Hi-Lo, starting with a count of -32 for the 8D shoe I play in our government casinos, and some shuffle tracking to set the next shoes to a favorable arrangement. But here, as SSR said, one has to be patient for the shoe to go get a + count. And a modified Hi-Lo plus shuffle tracking for the 6D shoe I play in the American casino, assigning values of +1 for 2-6; 0 for 7,8,9: -1 for picture cards and -2 for aces. The American casino I play in doesn't have any burnt cards and nor a hole card. You basically get to see almost all the cards in play except for the less than 1 deck behind.
  • Appetite said:
    Thanks Jimpenn. Finding this site makes me feel at home, with real cardcounters to talk to. I just discovered one of the hotels here came to offer Blackjack again. Just one table though. but always too crowded. I came in to play today and lost an equivalent of $600. Double my limit.


    Where is this blackjack table located and what are the differences between pontoon?
  • wink said:
    Where is this blackjack table located and what are the differences between pontoon?


    Casino Filipino in The Heritage Hotel is the only one that offers Blackjack. This hotel is located in the corner of EDSA and Roxas Blvd. in Pasay City, Metro Manila.

    Pontoon here in Casino Filipino differs from regular Blackjack in many ways. 10's are taken out from each deck of cards and are not included in the play. In Pontoon, you may double down up to 3 times on any points, split only up to 3 hands, have all Blackjacks hard 21's paid upright, early surrender is offered even after you have hit as many cards as you want, you may also opt to surrender only your double downs, insurance is paid 2.5 times, stand on any points, get paid 1.5 times for 21's 5-cards or more, 3 times for same suited 6-7-8 21's and triple 7's. Burnt cards are initial 8 for the start of the shoe, once every start of a game and another before hitting for the banker. They usually cut 2D from behind with or without a counter present. Shoe is cut by the Pit manager, then by the player every after shuffle. a local Shuffling machine is used.

    In the American casino, Fiesta/Thunderbird Resorts, located in Angono, Rizal, almost the same but you may only surrender double after you've hit if you have doubled, split 3 times, stand on 12 and up. No burnt cards. Only player will cut after every shuffle. Shoe is manually shuffled.

    In both cases, easy to shuffle-track and ace-track and to set the shoe if you play alone in the table.

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