Basic Strategy Question
  • in the game i was delt a queen and 6 making a 16.

    The dealer showed a face card.

    I hit stand and the game said that i made the wrong move, but the black jack book that i bought said that if surrender is not offered, you should stand with a 16 against a dealer face card.

    Which is right, the game or my book? The book im using is Mensa guide to BlackJack.

    Thanks!!
  • also, in the game i was dealt an 8 and a 4, which adds up to a 12

    The dealers up card was a 2

    I hit stand and the game said i was wrong. Which is correct, mensa or the game?
  • Generally, the correct way to play basic strategy is to hit a 16 against the dealer's card of 7 and up, irregardless whether surrender is offered or not by the house. Same goes with a 12 against a 2, the player must hit. Surrender is formulated as an escape against a possible loss and is advantageous to a player only if he counts. Since you do not exactly know what cards will come out for the dealer or his hole card, for that matter, the house gains advantage if you do surrender. Insurance and surrender were incorporated in the game, not to provide the player with an optional advantage, but the house.
  • Chaoman said:
    also, in the game i was dealt an 8 and a 4, which adds up to a 12

    The dealers up card was a 2

    I hit stand and the game said i was wrong. Which is correct, mensa or the game?


    Mensa guide to blackjack, that name will sell books, unfortunately whoever wrote the book does not know how to play basic strategy and will lose you more money than by playing basic strategy.

    For a non counter!
    You would surrender your 16 vs 10 if surrender was available.
    You hit your 16 if surrender is not available.

    You always hit your 12 vs 2 and even hit your 12 vs 3!

    If you happen to count, these things do change at certain counts, but do not worry about that yet as you first must master real basic strategy.

    The problem with buying a blackjack book at a bookstore is that publishers publish books they think will sell and do not require the information in those books to be 100% correct. Best to buy blackjack books online from sites run by advantage players. I suggest going to bj21.com. There you will find many good begginer books and advanced books plus a correct basic strategy chart on the site.

    ihate17
  • thanks alot.

    so bj21.com has the correct basic strategy chart?

    awe man i already memorized all the basic strategy from mensa :(

    thanks anyway !!
  • One last thing....Even the worst BJ writer/player has 12 vs 2 & 3 down pat and the same for 16 vs 10. So.. make sure that the writer does not qualify or describe some condition such as counting that applies or determines this chart. Chances are that you have missed something. If not, then the writer is an idiot and you need a new reference.
  • OK IM CONFUSED :)

    Basically if i have a hard 16 and the dealer shows a 10, what should i do?

    Some people tell me to stand while others tell me to hit.

    The chart on Bj21 says to hit with a 16 vs 10.

    The chart in my book says to stand / surrender with a 16 vs 10.

    which one is right?

    And if surrender IS offered should i surrender on 16 vs 10?

    This is for basic strategy with no knowledge of the count.

    Thanks again!

    Can anybody also list all the situations to surrender?
  • Chaoman said:
    OK IM CONFUSED :)

    Basically if i have a hard 16 and the dealer shows a 10, what should i do?

    Some people tell me to stand while others tell me to hit.

    The chart on Bj21 says to hit with a 16 vs 10.

    The chart in my book says to stand / surrender with a 16 vs 10.

    which one is right?

    And if surrender IS offered should i surrender on 16 vs 10?

    This is for basic strategy with no knowledge of the count.

    Thanks again!


    Again, your book is wrong. Who wrote your book?
    Stanford Wong of bj21.com is a recognized expert. You can check this site, try blackjackinfo.com, try advantageplayer.com, try blackjackforumsonline. These are sites run by people who know a lot more than basic strategy but they will give you a proper basic strategy.

    Your book is correct for surrender 16 vs 10. It should also tell you to surrender your 16 vs 9 and ace, and surrender 15 vs 10.

    What does your book say to do with a pair of 9's?
    What does your book say to do with soft 18?
    If the people who are telling you to stand on soft 16 vs 10 are other players on blackjack tables, you will find they will also tell you things like always take even money, which is also wrong.

    Now for the other side: With 16 vs 10, hit or stand you are a big underdog. Hitting will lose a little less money than standing. By losing less in these situations you give yourself a better chance of winning during your session, but remember basic strategy is not a winning proposition. It just brings the house's edge down for you. To win, over time, you must do other things.

    ihate17
  • The Mensa Guide to BJ is supposed to be a very well written book ,done by a former BJ pro with some ties to the various MIT teams.
    I'm thinking these posters are quoting specialized charts,not the general charts .
    Either that,or the books publishers have a bunch of shill reviews out on the net.
    I doubt Mensa would allow their name to be attached to a shoddy book,although I'm not sure about that.
  • NYB said:
    The Mensa Guide to BJ is supposed to be a very well written book ,done by a former BJ pro with some ties to the various MIT teams.
    I'm thinking these posters are quoting specialized charts,not the general charts .
    Either that,or the books publishers have a bunch of shill reviews out on the net.
    I doubt Mensa would allow their name to be attached to a shoddy book,although I'm not sure about that.


    I did read the reviews, but without seeing the book, you are quite possibly correct. Since the book seems to go way beyond BS, there must be charts covering positive situations where the indices would require staying on both the 16 and 12 mentioned earlier.

    ihate17
  • so basically, if i am not counting,

    i surrender with a 16 vs 9, 10, A
    and surrender a 15 vs 10

    if surrender is not allowed, i hit on both correct?
  • Chaoman said:
    so basically, if i am not counting,

    i surrender with a 16 vs 9, 10, A
    and surrender a 15 vs 10

    if surrender is not allowed, i hit on both correct?


    Yes that is correct. You should be aware that basic strategy is just a little different for the number of decks and where you play. Europe has the no-hole-card game and that changes things a little as well. One or more sites have a program that will allow you to input the type of game and will generate the correct B/S for that game.
  • NYB said:
    The Mensa Guide to BJ is supposed to be a very well written book ,done by a former BJ pro with some ties to the various MIT teams.
    I'm thinking these posters are quoting specialized charts,not the general charts .
    Either that,or the books publishers have a bunch of shill reviews out on the net.
    I doubt Mensa would allow their name to be attached to a shoddy book,although I'm not sure about that.


    This is possible, I agree. But definitely it isn't a general BS chart.
  • ihate17 said:
    I did read the reviews, but without seeing the book, you are quite possibly correct. Since the book seems to go way beyond BS, there must be charts covering positive situations where the indices would require staying on both the 16 and 12 mentioned earlier.

    ihate17


    My thoughts as well...he is missing something about that chart.
  • Chaoman said:
    so basically, if i am not counting,

    i surrender with a 16 vs 9, 10, A
    and surrender a 15 vs 10

    if surrender is not allowed, i hit on both correct?


    the book tells me to stand if surrender is not allowed, on the basic strategy chart.

    People are telling me to hit if surrender is not allowed.

    im gonna go with the people! but just in case HITTING ON 16 VS 9 10 A AND 15 VS 10 when surrender is not allowed is the right move correct?

    this is when i am not counting.

    sorry for the noob questions, im just starting to take bj seriously.
  • ihate17 said:
    I did read the reviews, but without seeing the book, you are quite possibly correct. Since the book seems to go way beyond BS, there must be charts covering positive situations where the indices would require staying on both the 16 and 12 mentioned earlier.

    ihate17


    Two things...

    this _could_ be CBS or Counter's Basic Strategy. The MIT team used this for the big players since they were only called in on + counts anyway. The general idea is to compute basic strategy for a true count of +2. And then you always play that way. Even if you count, you can use that since you will be playing correctly when you have big bets out, and you will be playing less optimally with small bets out. The good thing is that you end up making the playing decisions that affect your bankroll in a positive way, and you are not varying your play. for example, hitting 16 vs 10 or standing depending on the playing index number...

    Second, the difference between hitting 16 vs 10 and standing is tiny. The wizard's web site gives the expected value for each and they differ in a very tiny way. You could hit or stand every time and it would not make much difference at all unless you are counting. Then standing all the time would be better since that would be correct with large bets out anyway...

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