When to stand on 8/8 vs. dealers 10?
  • Playing Renzy's KISS Stage III Count. Ran into a extremly high count where I had 8's vs. the dealer up card of 10 (no surrender allowed but can double after split). What count do you stop splitting 8's and just stand? I knew dealer had a 20 and sure enough I split 8's 3 times for 3 18's. There is no index # for this in the KISS count, also looked at hi-low with Illustrious 18 and it wasn't in there either?

    Thanks..
    sl
  • sammylightfoot said:
    Playing Renzy's KISS Stage III Count. Ran into a extremly high count where I had 8's vs. the dealer up card of 10 (no surrender allowed but can double after split). What count do you stop splitting 8's and just stand? There is no index # for this in the KISS count.


    The KISS index charts contain no numbers for making plays that require a running count higher than "30". With DAS, the required KISS running count to stand with 8/8 vs. 10 would be "35" (roughly equivalent to a true count of +8).
  • Thousands of thanks (literarily) Fred for your answer and your excellent book! You really simplify things in a way other blackjack pro's don't. I can't recall what the count was but it may well have been over 35. Will have to watch out for that next time (though as rare as it may be). Just seems odd to keep splitting 8's when you stand on 16 with a count of 15, though I guess I shouldn't look at it like a 16. Along the same lines do you ever treat two 4's as an 8? (like double against 5 or 6 when count is high) or always just split against 5 or 6?

    Have worked my way up to KISS stage 3 over the last 4 months. Maybe will try to tackle mentor count in a couple of months, though that looks quite a bit more intimidating.

    Again thanks for your book and for perusing this message board. It's an honor to get a response from you..

    sl
  • sammylightfoot said:
    Along those same lines, do you ever treat two 4's as an 8? (like double against 5 or 6 when count is high) or always just split against 5 or 6?


    As long as you can DAS, splitting the 4's rather than doubling will always take priority in your hand playing strategy. For example, at an RC of "27", you should also split the 4's against a 4.

    Learning additional index numbers for pairs however, isn't worth much due to their infrequent appearances (4/4 vs. 4 comes once every 2400 hands overall). Probably the most useful additional index play to learn which is not on the KISS index charts would be doubling with 10 vs. 10 at "30 RC". That hand appears 32 times more often, although you do need a higher count to make the play.
  • Renzey said:
    As long as you can DAS, splitting the 4's rather than doubling will always take priority in your hand playing strategy. For example, at an RC of "27", you should also split the 4's against a 4.

    Learning additional index numbers for pairs however, isn't worth much due to their infrequent appearances (4/4 vs. 4 comes once every 2400 hands overall). Probably the most useful additional index play to learn which is not on the KISS index charts would be doubling with 10 vs. 10 at "30 RC". That hand appears 32 times more often, although you do need a higher count to make the play.


    Thanks. Very informative!

    (Sorry about the slow response, just got back from a good trip to vegas. )

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