maybe grifter knows............................
  • you'd think that if the casinos were so scared of counters they'd just go ahead and use csm's all the time at every single table.........the pit critters wouldn't ever again be on the lookout for,if they are so concerned about counters why don't they just get csm's at every table?
  • I asked that very question while in Vegas this summer. Believe it or not, the first reason quoted was "the things cost too much". I recall some prices being bandied about as it seems that the things are leased rather than purchased, but I didn't remember enough accurately to quote any real numbers here.

    I did think it rather stupid that if the casinos really believe that counters walk away with thousands of dollars (each) every day, and I somewhere remember the number $4000 but I don't know if that was per month, per year, or a flat fee, and if they think that is too expensive, then they really _can not_ think that counters are ripping them off right and left. Obviously a CSM will ruin a counter's chances period. Obviously it won't really wreck the game or slow things down too much although it does slow the game down some compared to a 6d shoe. So to me, obviously, the casinos say the counters are killing them, but they really don't believe it as they won't pay a small fraction of a single counter's supposed "take" to stop it once and for all.

    If I were guessing, I'd guess it is the fewer hands per hour that drives that decision. They get their 5% take from 99.9% of the players, and the more hands per hour, the more that take decreases the players bankroll...
  • Marketing is a very complex science and a blackjack table/game is
    just another product. The central focus is what will we buy; what will
    people tolerate and/or like? As far back as the early 80's we had the
    technology to totally automate a blackjack table. Eliminate dealer,
    pit,eye in the sky, cards ,chips,cashier and even the gal with the drinks.
    The 6:5 games in LV is an industry pilot and so is the CSM; a test to see
    just what will players tolerate. The major cost to the casino and other
    businesses is the people, and not machines or automation. A robot will
    work 24/7, needs no money or time off and will never retire with benefits.

    Little wonder that most will tell you to shy away from CSM's,6:5 BJ and
    other automated BJ games with bad rules and other limitations.

  • Prog – Random thoughts on why we won’t see all CSM ‘s in LV:
    - Casino’s aren’t really “scared” of counters. There are simply not enough of us (one quarter of one percent is one figure I’ve seen used, and even that seems high to me).
    - CSM’s are presently primarily used to increase the hands per hour in the lower stakes 6 deck games where the vast majority of people play.

    - CMS’s would not significantly increase the hands in SD or DD, if at all; and definitely not at a table of good players where the pace is controlled by the players, not the dealer.

    - Experienced players would not play SD or DD with a CSM, and the casinos know this.
    - CSM’s are expensive to lease.

    - CSM’s are an added cost (you still have to pay a dealer).

    Just my thoughts…..Grifter

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