The dreaded eye in the table
  • Rears its ugly head again. A Las Vegas Review Journal reports one maker (AGI... but IGT has one also) getting sued over the use of them. An interesting perspective here:

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Oct-23-Sat-2004/opinion/25062234.html
  • Some of us discussed this over on bj21.com. Seems there are some important points (a link to an actual scanned copy of the filing papers was provided there).

    1. a "person" can't use a computer to influence the outcome of a game. Mindplay can do just that by telling the dealer to shuffle-up, the current shoe is advantagous to the players and not the house. The casino in question claims it is not a "person" under Nevada law. That will be an interesting point to watch.

    2. They claim they only use this device to be sure that the cards are dealt in the same order that they are shuffled into, but the law suit claims that a counter noticed that the shoe was shuffled up when the count went positive.

    3. Supposedly it can track bets and one player reported that he had a 20 to the dealer's non-natural 21 and the dealer called it a push. Apparently the mindplay software caught this, and flashed a warning to the dealer that he had made an error which was quickly rectified.

    The "shuffle-up" issue seems to be a big one, as the casinos that do this are guilty of the very thing they claim to loathe, the idea of counting cards. :)
  • Although I didn't realize the sophistication at the time, I played with must be this system at the Flamingo a couple of weeks ago. I haven't seen it anywhere else though.

    It's more than a little scary.
  • The boolean logic and artifical intelligence within the program routines
    can remove any need for the eye in the sky and all the other analysis
    regarding player rating, counting or otherwise. There is nothing new or
    complex here. It simply begs the question; what will the public/player
    tolerate; what will he accept,etc? Give them an inch and get ready for
    a mile. It started with H17, then 6:5, CSM, etc,etc,etc......Ray
  • Larz: You are right, they are at the Flamingo. Thats the MindPlay version. The IGT version is called TableTouch, and is reported to be installed at Caeser's Palace of all places.

    "If we can't count, neither can they!"

    If they can shuffle up at a + count, we can have a shuffle up at a - count."

    "DON'T PLAY HERE" is the better slogan IMHO.
  • A funny thought just occured to me. Thats a person dealing the cards at the table. A 'person' by another name called 'dealer'?

    Well, OK its a person... in two years the robotic arm will deal, and what we call a dealer will be a banker, whose sole purpose is to collect and distribute wagers.

    On second thought... thats NOT funny...
  • Names can be funny. Played at Caesar's in June, waiting on the Celine concert to start. Was at a $10 table having a good time when some college-age kids walked up. They gave the dealer a hard time, ragged him, kept calling him Caesar, cursing, being generally obnoxious. When they left, I asked "Guess you are glad to see 'em leave?" He answered "yep, too much mouth." I asked "did you get tired of that "Caesar" stuff?" He said "no, that part was ok, it's really my name."

    :)

    Was a friendly dealer too. Pitched game moved kind of slow, but the loudmouths made it painful anyway. Turned away from the table talking when it was their turn, etc.

    Told my son who was there with me "You do lots of stupid things, but seeing that kind of behavior from others makes me proud of you..." :)

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