odds - N decks
  • I just got the Renzey book (I recommend it highly) and am baffled by the stated statistical advantage of 1 deck versus N decks -- sans counting. Why is this? TIA.

    Dex
  • Dex, There may be other reasons but, here is how I look at the
    difference: Reduce the single deck to four cards( 2 big, 2 little). If
    we are counting and one card comes out and it is a 5, then we know
    that the deck is rich in high cards; no question. Next comes a 10
    and we are back to neutral. The single deck game is close to this
    example because the potential for contamination is far less
    than in a shoe game. Suppose in a 6 deck game we proceed to the
    point that there are only 3 decks remaining(one for play, 2 behind
    the cut card). We are looking at 2:1 odds that our expectations are,
    at least to some degree, watered down or totally wrong.

    When we assume a good average distribution......well thats gambling

    Ray
  • I understand the dillution factor when counting is part of the equation. The book suggests though that less decks equates to better odds just using basic strategy - no counting. I don't get that.

    Dex
  • When you do the math, it looks like the single deck vs six deck
    relationship should be equal for B/S players.....I must admit I
    don't see any difference at first glance.

    Ray
  • WHY FEWER DECKS = LOWER HOUSE EDGE w/ BASIC STRATEGY: First off, there's the fact that blackjacks are dealt a bit more often with one deck than with six. Next, you get a 10 on your doubles more often with one deck than with six. This second reason is easier to illustrate, so here's why it's true.
    When you double, you never have a 10 in your hand. With a single deck then, your chance of catching a 10 to your double is 16/50, or 32%.
    With six decks, it's 96/310, or 31%.
    For similar reasons, blackjacks with a single deck come once every 20.7 hands, but with six decks they come once every 21.0 hands.
    These and other factors, as Mr. Ed pointed out in an earlier post are all owing to the fact that when you remove a couple of cards from the pack, it affects a supply of 52 cards more than a supply of 312. Most of these differences affect the player adversely as the number of decks grows. Hence, six decks is about .57% worse for the basic strategy player than one deck - all else being equal.
  • yo Renzey what's the HA on SingleDeck S17 D/S anything, everything except SURRENDER with someone playing pefect BS?

    HOOK THE STATS UP YO! ^_^
  • BUG: With DAS, it's a 0.14% player edge. Without, it's a dead even game. I thought those became extinct in the '70's.
  • So excluding the 6/5 bs bj payment odds what's the best bj game for the flawless bs player? (note: bs in the LATTER means BASIC STRATEGY)
  • Bug - The best readily available game today would be Single Deck, H17, DOA, no DAS which has an HA of 0.14%. You can get this in most of the stores in downtown LV, in Reno, and in Laughlin here in the west.

    Grifter
  • Grifter -- at which downtown LV casinos do they deal this game?
  • GOODNESS, I must be playing in the cheap zone. Does anyone in the
    mid-west have single deck games( other than Tunica)? We don't have
    double deck, much-less single. One thing we don't have is 8 deck shoes
    and after reading FREDS post on the relative difference in shoe vs single
    for B/S I don't plan on "ever" playing that game.

    Ray
  • Zebra - As of about six months ago...... Horseshoe, Lady Luck, Golden Gate, Four Queens, and probably El Cortez

    Some of these are not the best joints in town, but the game is there.

    Grifter
  • Just returned from Vegas. Harrah's and Rio had a few single deck games, but they all were 6:5 BlackJack pay off, no mid-shoe entry.
  • Just returned from 12 hrs. of play in Louisiana. During the final three hours I decided to venture over to the double deck table. First time ever to play 2D. Seemed like decent rules. $10 min., S17, RSA, DOA, no surrender. The great part is I was winning! It was early in the morning and I was also fortunate to play heads up. Out of eight or ten rounds I only remember one really bad streak. I finished up about $300 net gain for the trip after being down $200. ($10 unit) Why didn't I try double deck months ago? The game really does have a unique "feel" from the shoes. Maybe it was beginners luck. Anyone care to comment on your thoughts about shoe games vs. double deck?
  • I know :roll: I asked this question in another posting but never got a straight answer to it :( Which version of blackjack is best :?: I know that single decks can be found, but out of the games offered : Vegas Downtown, Vegas Strip, European Blackjack, or Atlantic City Blackjack, which one is the one to go for :?:

    Cheers :wink:

    Colin
  • Could you DAS? That game is awesome with the RSA. Quite addictive if I may say. What were you spreading 1-4, 1-2, flat BS?

    Inquiring minds wanna know!
  • Colin asked : I know I asked this question in another posting but never got a straight answer to it Which version of blackjack is best I know that single decks can be found, but out of the games offered : Vegas Downtown, Vegas Strip, European Blackjack, or Atlantic City Blackjack, which one is the one to go for

    Find the best rules, with the least amount of decks. There are still some decent games out there, but you have to shop around a little more now. Make sure that you are prepared. Abe Lincoln once said "If you have an hour to chop wood, spend 45 minutes of it, sharpening the axe".
  • Nickels:
    Yes, DAS. I was mostly flat betting with BS due to my limited bankroll. I was also chasing previous losses. My highest bet was 3X. I was just intrigued by the new experience. I will certainly look for double deck opportunities again. Is this how counters are able to get their edge? Of course, I know it goes both ways.
  • This is how PLAYERS get an edge. Your House Advantage is very small with those nice rules. Even BS has a real chance to get ahead. If Dealer stands on soft 17, and you can double after a split, and double on anything (incl. soft Doubling) who needs surrender when you can Resplit Aces. Probably a 0.1% HA. Click on my site link below, and wander around Dealer Stands Soft 17. I've not included 2-deck DS17, thinking it was/is "dead as a doornail"!, but you can get an idea of using BASIC with a way of loosely determining who got game... You or House.

    If you play using it, just bet 1 when the house has game, and 2 when you do. Start at ZERO, betting 1, and follow BS for 2-DECK DS17. When the score is +1 or +2, bet 2.... At +3 try 3 units, ZERO or less bets 1. DON'T play if the score is -3 or less.

    DON'T use those charts on site, they're not right for your game. BS for 2 decks is a little different than for 4, 6, or 8 decks.

    N&B
  • The main difference I've noticed is more double down opportunities when holding a nine-total hand. BS is also different on some split hands. It wasn't too difficult for me to learn the BS changes to 2D. It's given me a new twist for sure.
  • I had another good experience yesterday. Took my 2nd trip within last 12 months to the Texas coast and played on the ship out of Corpus Christi area. This time they offerred surrender and also allowed playing more than one spot without increasing bet amount. You can also DAS, DOA. Only down side was having to choose between eight decks or five deck CSM's. The only remaining disadvantage to me is the short 4-hour duration. The good news was, for the 2nd time in a week, I finished ahead!

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