• QUESTION; if i use the kiss III counting system with a .75% edge over the house what is my edge if i play using a team member and call him in only when we have a count of 20,21,22, 23 or higher and he bets a 1-10 spread? please don't answer this question with a bunch of hundred dollar words but keep it simple for us simple folks.....thanks alot and good luck.
  • Prog - Have to know two things to even get close to an answer: (1) Are you flat betting one unit? (2) Is your partner's base unit the same as yours?

  • i'm flat betting and my team member is betting the same unit as me-suppose i flat bet -that is ALWAYS THE SAME BET-and also flat bet but double down or split in accordance with basic strategy-is one method better for me to use if i have a tem member i call in?
    thanks alot Grift for helping me out.
    best of luck
  • The main issue is that your bigplayer's small bet should be a large multiple of your flat bet. Because he will be betting only when he has an advantage. Your goal is to not be noticed, and to count and call in the BP when the count reaches some agreed-on value (+2 TC is common). The BP really doesn't do much "spreading" because he is not betting at poor TC values. You are going to lose money flat-betting, of course. But your losses will be minimal since you are flat-betting the table min. The bigger the differential between your small bet and the BP's bet, the less your small losses will affect your team bankroll...
  • Prog - With a normal six deck game and betting as you described above, your team advantage would be about +0.45 - +0.55.


    p.s. This could be greatly improved if (1) You played KISS and spread 1-10 as you count; and/or (2) Your partner increases his base unit size to at least five times yours.
  • Can someone explain to me how this "sudden bet" works ?

    Let's say that a new player (my teammember) joins the table, puts in a big bet, stays around for two rounds and jumps ship as soon as the count changes (esp. in 2D games). Won't the dealer and pit be just a tiny bit suspicious?

    From my limited experience playing low limit tables, it seems that the pit bosses flock to the table whenever someone new arrives because they assume the player might want to buy in (relatively few people come with large chip denominations). I would assume that if a pit boss saw someone coming in, putting 5-10 times what the other players did, playing a few hands and bailing without coloring up, he would get security to trace him?

    Also, what are the actual chances of making a killing by betting big on a hand or two? The whole edge is supposed to be mathematical expectation that comes from good double and blackjack opportunities, while your chances of winning a hand are actually lower when the count is high. Wouldn't playing only a few hands a day at these high odds result in too much variance ?
  • question 1. Yes the pit will get suspicious. That's why the BP has to have a great act, and why you don't camp out for hours in that casino so that they can figure out what you are doing to them. :)

    Your expected winnings is your EV * your bet for that hand. Try playing with CVBJ, betting $5 at TC of 0 or less, betting $5000 at a TC of +2 or higher, and see what happens. :)
  • When and how is the team member going to bet?......Same as you said above?..........What size is his base unit (in relation to yours)?
  • yes,he gets called in and bets as i said above-for this example my basic unit is $5.00 so he is betting;
    count 20............$15.00
    count 21...........$25.00
    count 22..........$40.00
    count 23 or higher........$50.00
    thanks for all your help! best of luck-
  • Grifter- If Prog is betting the 5 bucks thru-out, calls in the bigplayer at
    the count indicated, and at the sametime leaves the table, wouldn't his
    edge be close to the same as playing alone? (with the right spread)

    The spread in his case is about right for sims to show about 70-75 adv.
    If he countinues to play, I think that may reduce the advantage somewhat.

    I assume he is trying to avoid the heat, but at the same time get the big
    bets out there for the high counts. Sounds like a six deck application that
    could work if you don't stay in one place too long.
  • Ray – You are absolutely correct of course.
    - If Prog leaves when the BP (Big Player) comes in (and bets $15-$50), the overall team edge will be ~+0.70.
    - If Prog continues to flat bet $5 when BP comes in, the overall team edge will drop to ~+0.61.

    Prog – I’m still not sure exactly how you intend to play it, so here are a couple more answers….take your pick:
    - If Prog uses KISS, spreads 1-10 and plays all hands and the BP comes in and bets $15-$50, the overall team edge will be ~+0.81.
    and the following seems more reasonable to me:
    - If Prog uses KISS, spreads 1-10 and plays all hands and the BP comes in and bets $50-$200, the overall team edge will be ~+1.51.

    If none of the above is what you are looking for…keep “firing”, we’ll get there.

  • Ray - This is the test.......Grif

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