• Several weeks ago a dealer advised that we shouldn't follow basic strategy because... It was invented by organized crime to make their casinos more profitable!
  • And we willingly pay respect to such respectable people! LOL

    Yes Mr. Rothstein, I WILL split dose two snowmen... so what about dat King da dealer has. And look at that I get a Jack and a ten... how lucky can a goodfella get, eh?
  • Its done pretty well for there publishing companies as well.

    Have you ever read some of the "expert" advice sages such as Scarne were selling pre-Thorpe?
  • years ago i thought one should ask the dealer for advice........after hearing remarks like "that's an 18 there pal that Ace and 7,you sure you wanna hit that?.............i learned most dealers know how to deal,some dealers know how to play the game.
    Prog
  • I wish you could have been there when I hit my twelve (10,2) against the dealer's 4. (Renzey's Dr. Pepper rule) The dealer really got all bent out of shape!
  • it always just amazes me that dealers don't read an excellent book like Blackjack Bluebook II and as quick as possible get themselves on the other side of the table! what gives????
    Prog
  • I have never met a dealer who said they ever played on the other side of the table-
  • WILLIAM said:
    I have never met a dealer who said they ever played on the other side of the table-


    I have, and if they play like they say they play, they're serious losers!
  • WILLIAM said:
    I have never met a dealer who said they ever played on the other side of the table-


    A lot of dealers play too! They just don't play where they work! As a former dealer turned pro gambler. I can tell yiu the money is better playing then dealing if you know what you are doing and take advantage of well set up shoe!
  • Once I heard a dealer don't hit 16 vs an ace this is horrible advice it cost you an average of 15% by doing this! I consider anything that you gain or lose ten percent or more to be major in this game! The dealer will only bust 12% of the time with an ace showing! Others will give you good basic stragedy advice like double against a dealer 5 when you have an 11. But this is just the most obvious advice! some dealers are not allowed to give basic stragedy advice so they might give you no advice or bad advice!
  • As a new player you might ask the dealer for advice and several things could happen.

    1. The dealer will not give you advice because either the casino forbids him too or he has learned that sometimes giving advice will get him into trouble with the player because even the best advice does not always work.

    2. The dealer will give you wrong advice. I am amazed how often players think that dealers know and understand the game and what is the best play for a situation. The vast majority of dealers who do play blackjack or even those who do not, learned their strategy from the players at the table. Since, in my opinion, over 99% of those players do not play basic strategy perfectly, most dealers will not be perfect and some will be very bad on their advice.

    3. The dealer will give you the right advice. This happens even in tough situations because there are dealers out there who do know BS and there are dealers out there who count. They are a small minority but often I can tell.

    Then there is asking the pit for advice. When you ask a dealer, I believe you are almost always getting his honest (but often wrong) opinion. When you ask the pit, I have seen so much horrid advice that I can not believe everyone of these pit types were making honest errors. Recently, with a dealer who I know counts, a player asked this pit lady if she should split her 2,2 against the dealer 4. Answer, just hit, a 4 is a dangerous card in the dealers hand. Dealer looks straight down at the table. Same night, different casino, player asks if she should double her A,6 against dealer 5, pit says "you might take the dealers bust card, just stay." She stays, dealer turns a 2 in the hole, hits a 4 for 11 and then hits an 8.

    Now to give good the other side of the story.
    I know of one (just one in all these years) pit who carries a correct basic strategy card with him and if asked will tell the player what it says on the card and show it to him.

    ihate17
  • Moral of the story.... learn and understand what you are playing and don't trust strangers sitting or standing around a blackjack table. The only people I ever ask for advice are the pro's on this board or my 2 friends who already know how to count. Go to a casino and ask someone and you will get tons of theories, opinions, and fallicies of the game preached to you. Learn the game and research and answer your own questions before you go and play in a casino.
  • the books are a good guide for beginers...but as we all know, there are things we "just can't do" when it comes to playing the game. NEVER will I split 8's against an 8, 9, 10 or ace. Why? So we can get two hands of 18 versus the dealer's 19 or 20? Makes no sense. I don't split aces against a dealer's face card, either.
  • ryno said:
    the books are a good guide for beginers...but as we all know, there are things we "just can't do" when it comes to playing the game. NEVER will I split 8's against an 8, 9, 10 or ace. Why? So we can get two hands of 18 versus the dealer's 19 or 20? Makes no sense. I don't split aces against a dealer's face card, either.


    You are worse than the ploppies. At least they don't know better. You have the knowledge to call on but refuse to use it.Would another thing you "just can't do" be winning on a consistant basis.
  • Ryno... you are playing poorly. Go to the wizardofodds.com and look at the expected value for things like A-A vs dealer 10, as it will show you your expected win or loss for split, and for just hitting. Just hitting is worse. For this example, A-A vs 10 and hitting, you expect to lose more than you win, with an EV of -.07, losing 7 cents of every dollar bet on that round. If you split, you have an EV of +.18, or you win 18 cents for every dollar bet.

    Why on earth would you chose to give up 7 cents on the dollar, vs winning 18 cents on the dollar?

    Basic strategy is _not_ wrong. Not playing BS (if you don't count) is clearly wrong.

    As far as dealer advices goes, I wish they would just shut up and deal. I have yet to encounter a dealer that knows perfect BS. None seem to think hitting A-7 vs 9, 10 or A is correct play. Yet they give advice as though it were "gospel" and teach beginners to play incorrectly... And the beginners assume the dealers know what they are talking about, which in general they do not.

    A simple case in point: 16 vs 10. Many dealers will say "it is a close call (this is correct) but whatever you choose to do, do it every time the same way or you will lose money (this is bullsh**)" I have heard that dozens of times. Personally (except for SD games) I stand on 16 vs 10 as the counter's basic strategy suggests, so that I am playing correctly when I have a big bet out, and I play consistently rather than varying this play based on the count, which is a well-known "counter tell" (like splitting 10's and very oddball doubling such as A-9 vs 4 for example). The only thing worse than no advice is wrong advice. Dealers are famous for the latter.
  • learningtocount said:
    Once I heard a dealer don't hit 16 vs an ace this is horrible advice it cost you an average of 15% by doing this! I consider anything that you gain or lose ten percent or more to be major in this game! The dealer will only bust 12% of the time with an ace showing! Others will give you good basic stragedy advice like double against a dealer 5 when you have an 11. But this is just the most obvious advice! some dealers are not allowed to give basic stragedy advice so they might give you no advice or bad advice!


    In just the past month, I heard a pit tell a player that splitting 2,2 vs 6 is a horrible play. Dealers telling many players to stay on 16 vs 7. Never ever split 9,9. Always soft double against every dealer bust card with hands like A,2 or A,3. The list just could go on. You might think that some of these dealers are working on commission but the truth is they are dealers and not good players.
    On the good side, there are a few (and just a few) dealers who give perfect basic strategy advice and I know of a pit (just one) who carries a basic strategy card in his pocket, gives advice when asked, and then shows the person the card.

    ihate17
  • ryno,

    Do you ever double down with 11 vs. a dealer 10 or face?
    Do you ever split 9's vs. a dealer's 9?
    Do you ever double down on A/7 vs. a dealer's 3?

    Just wondering.
  • Ryno

    Split those 8's and yes there will be times that you hit 2, 18's and the dealer will have you beat and those times will hurt. What will also happen sometimes is the dealer has a stiff. Other times you might hit a 2 or a 3 on your 8 and land up with a better hand than the dealer. When you add up a few hundred thousand of all these possibilities, you do not make money splitting your 8.s but you do land up losing less money than if you just hit or stand. Without playing and keeping tract of that many hands yourself, you only have your memory to go by.

    ihate17
  • ryno said:
    the books are a good guide for beginers...but as we all know, there are things we "just can't do" when it comes to playing the game. NEVER will I split 8's against an 8, 9, 10 or ace. Why? So we can get two hands of 18 versus the dealer's 19 or 20? Makes no sense. I don't split aces against a dealer's face card, either.


    Out of curiosity,do you DD on 11 against a dealers facecard?
  • I have not played against a dealer that I though knew more than me. They tend to recommend incorrect basic strategy plays, some more than others.
  • NYB,
    What happened to ryno? We haven't heard any more out of him. Maybe he went out and found a copy of Fred's book.
  • chxplay said:
    NYB,
    What happened to ryno? We haven't heard any more out of him. Maybe he went out and found a copy of Fred's book.


    I think he changed his id to countsfast or fullacrap or something.....
  • Once I had a hard 20 against an ace and the dealer told me to take another card. Of course I did not listen to hear and I tucked my cards.
  • Blackjack dealers are just like poker dealers....if they were really "that good" that'd be playing instead of dealing 99% of the time.

    (few exceptions being need the stable income for a family, etc. etc.)
  • If you're a player asking a dealer for advice, and you know the answer already, isn't that like teasing the animals at the zoo. If you need advice on investing your money seek advice from a professional. If you want to make fun of someone, look in the mirror.

    Just my opinion
  • Post Deleted - Spam
  • usetodeal said:
    If you're a player asking a dealer for advice, and you know the answer already, isn't that like teasing the animals at the zoo. If you need advice on investing your money seek advice from a professional. If you want to make fun of someone, look in the mirror.

    Just my opinion


    Sometimes you want to make a particular play, because the count suggests doing so,, but it is a somewhat risky play that might draw attention. So sometimes, asking the dealer what to do can help you make such plays without anyone in the pit batting an eye. Splitting 10's is one good example. Some dealers give good B/S advice. But others don't have a clue and will readily say "hell yeah" if you ask "should I split these 10's since your 6 is a bad card?" Or should I double my 8 since your 6 is so bad? Etc...
  • stainless steel rat said:
    Sometimes you want to make a particular play, because the count suggests doing so,, but it is a somewhat risky play that might draw attention. So sometimes, asking the dealer what to do can help you make such plays without anyone in the pit batting an eye. Splitting 10's is one good example. Some dealers give good B/S advice. But others don't have a clue and will readily say "hell yeah" if you ask "should I split these 10's since your 6 is a bad card?" Or should I double my 8 since your 6 is so bad? Etc...


    Right!



    As for bad advice from dealers, the main one I get is people b1tching about hitting a soft 18 against a dealer 10 and the dealers agreeing with them. I once even had the dealer go through the cards after the hand to show the person next to me (I was at 3rd base) that he would have lost anyway even if I hadn't made a 'bad play' by hitting an 18.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!