Doubling Down on 11 vs Ace and Late Surrender in an H17 game.
  • I've been using's basic strategy engine for a long time to refine my play for specific rules (Link to Engine). There's always been one thing that's made me question it's accuracy though and that's the fact that it always tells you to Double Down on 11 v Ace in every game where a dealer Hits on Soft 17. I've never found a table in any book that said to do this. (Though I guess I could assume they were all made for games where dealer stands on Soft 17).

    I'm also curious about Surrendering 8,8's vs an Ace, and 17 vs an Ace in games where Dealer Hits Soft 17 and Late Surrender is available, as the strategy engine says to make both plays.

    Can anybody confirm these moves one way or the other or even better, have the math?
  • Go to
    Then TABLE OF CONTENTS (on the left)
    Scroll down to Reference
    Click Expected Value Tables
    Then pick the set of rules you're interested in.

    I chose the 6 deck rules. Looking at the H17 rules I see the EV for standing with T,7 vs A is -0.51376. For the S17 rules the EV is -0.47631. And, of course, the EV for surrendering is -.50000.

    So, yes, if the dealer hits soft 17, you should surrender with 17 vs. A; if the dealer stands on soft 17, you should stand with 17 vs. A.

    I didn't check about your other examples, but I expect you'll find out the charts at are correct. If you find out different, let me know. Better yet, let Ken Smith at know!

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