How do you do it?
  • This question is mostly for Fred Renzey. If you are such a blackjack expert, with all this knowledge on counting and advantage play, how do you even get into a casino. I would think with all their security precautions and even face recognition systems,you would'nt be allowed near a table. Less notable players than you can't even find a game, and if they do they get yanked pretty quick. And Also a question to the moderator. Why did you delete my last post. Iasked the guy a question and he gave me squat for an answer. I did ask nicely.
  • Andee said:
    This question is mostly for Fred Renzey. If you are such a blackjack expert, with all this knowledge on counting and advantage play, how do you even get into a casino. I would think with all their security precautions and even face recognition systems,you would'nt be allowed near a table. Less notable players than you can't even find a game, and if they do they get yanked pretty quick. And Also a question to the moderator. Why did you delete my last post. Iasked the guy a question and he gave me squat for an answer. I did ask nicely.


    You may have asked nicely and he answered appropriately.

    Your answer which I did see before it was deleted was totally rude and uncalled for.

    Try showing a little respect and grow up a little.

    Nobody has any obligation to do anything for you unless they want to.
  • Listen chuckn, I may have stepped little over the line with my comments to Bojack but I don't think it was that bad. I'm pretty sure I know who he is and lets just say he learned how to play in Massachussetts. I just wanted to pick his brain a little. If he didn't want to talk about blackjack he should never have posted his playing strategies, and he should answer questions when asked nicely. And I'm still waiting to hear how Fred Renzey gets into a casino and plays without getting booted.
  • do you know what Fred Renzey looks like?
    Prog
  • Progressionist, No I don't know what Fred Renzey looks like. I'm also not a multi billion dollar industry like the casinos who have every avenue possible of finding out a persons identity. But if his claim to fame is card counting and advantage play at blackjack, and he's written books on it, I'm pretty sure the casinos know what he looks like. I find it hard to believe he would be allowed to play blackjack in any casino at this point. I don't doubt he did once play but I bet his gambling fame has hurt his chances of actually applying his theories in real casino atmospheres. I may be wrong but no one seems to want to answer these simple questions of mine.
  • Andee -- It's a big world out there. Yes, I have been backed off from the blackjack tables in several places, but there are more and more places to play blackjack all the time. I play under my real name and I thought you would've guessed this but -- there is no such real person as Fred Renzey.
  • I understand you don't use your real name, as far as I know none of you blackjack authers do. Stanford Wong one of the most famous people in the industrys real name is John Ferguson and he's not at all an asian like everybody thinks. But most every casino knows him and he doesn't play anymore. I really don't think its that hard to find anyones real name if what they do puts them out there in the public eye. I just find it hard to believe you could walk into a casino and play like everyone else. Especially if you get backed off, don't they have you in a file somewhere.
  • I don’t know how he does it. I don’t even know how I do it. I have teamed up with a friend. We visit the casino about twice a month and play relatively heavy at crowded tables. We stop when we win 4k between us. We have been able to do this for the last 16 trips. Before this streak, we did this 9 trips in a row. Sometimes I feel we are being watched, but we’ve never been asked to leave. Instead, we are compd everything, including room service. Whenever we play, we hand in our rating cards. Now I ask you; with a record like this, why do they keep inviting us back? When will their computer bring our gravy train to an abrupt halt?

    P.S. My name isn’t really Dol Bil Tink
  • Congratulations Dol Bil Tink you went from not understanding that a thin to win cut means nothing, to being a full fledged heavy hitter. All in one weeks time. Please spare your boasts to someone who might really believe it. Maybe come up with some insightful playing tactics to backup your hard to believe stories and you might be slightly believable. Oh, and Dol Bil Tink is not your real name, WOW who would've guessed. Your so clever.
  • Hey-
    I think perhaps Andee is actually that guy who got kicked off here maybe a year ago-can't recall his name but I'd recognize it if I heard it again. What do you guys think?
    Prog
  • I don't know who to believe but I think it's funny that someone would write "Your so clever" and spell one of the words wrong.
  • Listen guys, I just started reading this forum about 3 months ago, so no I'm not the guy who got thrown off here. I am a bit of a smart ass I'll admit, but I like to have fun. All I wanted was for Bojack to admit who he was and answer some questions I had about his play and where he's playing now. He blew me off. So if your reading dude come out and play. I also asked Fred Renzey a question and he was kind enough to answer me, even if I don't totally buy it. I really like the history of the game, and one thing about this game if you can't lighten up than your gonna burn out. By the way to all you supposed big players out there, I've never heard the real ones brag about their money. Oh yeah Leon, even the best novel writers need proofreaders, "you're" hired.
  • Don't worry about it Andee. Keep posting. This'll all blow over.
  • Andee I think that you are somewhat entertaining. As long as you keep your posts respectful. The one that got deleted was not. Other than that I think you'll be okay. Interesting bit of information on Stanford Wong I did not know that about him. I always thought that was his real name. And of course I thought he was asian.
  • Alright Andee here I am. First off let me tell you I am not, nor was I ever part of any of the MIT blackjack teams. That seems to be what you are alluding to in your posts. I did however learn to play from one of the players on what was called the Amphibian Investments MIT team. Thats where I learned the techniques of shuffle tracking, key card sequencing, and cut card placement. I formed a team and we play all over. I personally haven't been to Vegas since 2001, but members of my team go there about 6 times a year. As long as you don't get to personal or nasty I'll answer anything you ask, if I can.
  • Thank you. Its about time. Anyway you say you have a team, how big is it? How do you go about financing a team? Does everyone play a role lik the MIT teams? Now before you freak out, I'm not trying to be nosy. I just like the idea of team play and would like to start my own. It seems to be more advantagous to play as a team. Matter of fact anybody with useful team play info please chime in. And Bojack I got a lot more to ask but I'll wait to see if you answer this stuff first.---Any information will be greatly appreciated. (How's that guys, a little better.)
  • Arnold Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack" has a great section about team play.
  • Hey Andee, liten-up. You had to know that my “Thin To Win” post was meant to be a lite-hearted, tongue in cheek type question. If you thought I was serious, I’ll be more careful with my humor.
    Whether you believe my play record or not is of no consequence. My post was not meant to be vicious or insulting. The point I was trying to make is that there are some of us that are able to take the gamble out of the game. I don’t mean to imply that it’s easy or that winning can be done constantly or consistently. On the contrary. A winning edge requires a great deal of hard work and discipline. I just don’t want you discouraging any of the novices that might be reading your posts. By the way, I’ll be in CT Thurs. and Fri. I’ll let you know how I make out.
  • The team I play with consists of 5 people. It started with just me and a friend. After a while we added the others who were either good friends or family. I find thats the best way to do it. There really needs to be a huge element of trust. I think it would be very hard otherwise. Reason being if your team takes a beating on one of its trips, and believe me it sometimes happens, you want to be sure its not due to someone pocketing some money, or not playing the way their supposed to. The financing for the team came from our own pockets. My original partner and I each put in an equal amount into a shared bankroll. As we added people we trained them to play, and when they were good enough to play in the casino, they would buy in for the same amount as we put in. Everybody is equal regardless of what their team responsibility is. We run it like most teams with spotters and big players. Our big player only sits at tables that have already been counted for an advantage, whether it be from straight counting or shuffltracking or any other method we might be using. When he sits down he only bets big, and leaves when signaled the advantage is gone. It can be very profitable to use team play. The advantage being your bankroll is much bigger and you take full advantage of playing a purely positive game. None of these things are my original ideas. All of these things have been done before. So they can work. Its how well you prepare and practice that will determine your success.
  • Sounds cool Bojack. Now how do you split up profits, like if they're going to Vegas and you're not, do you still get a piece of what they make. (By the way, why don't you go to Vegas) Also do you have time limits on your sessions- Is there limits you set on winning or losing. And how can you tell if someone is good enough to play in a casino. How soon can you tell if the team is working or not. Thanks for answering and thank you to LeonShuffle for the word on Arnold Snyder's book. I'll be picking that up for sure. Any other teams out there, I'd love to hear any advice or tips you got on anything about the game. Peace.
  • Andee-- Every +100 units gets split. 50 units goes back to the bankroll, 10 units a piece for the players. As for me not going to Vegas with them, we don't always have to be playing in the same casino or even the same state. 3 players could be in Vegas while 2 of us could be in A.C. We're still playing as a team because we're still sharing the same bankroll. I don't go to Vegas for personal reasons, but it has yet to hinder the team. There are no limits on sessions due to wins and losses, but we due have limits on time played straight, due to fatigue and the mistakes it causes. Our shifts are usually 6 hrs on 4 off for the duration of the trip. Although we have played longer on exceptionally positive circumstances. We chart every trips results, and we check our expectation every 10,000 hands to see if we fall in our expected range factoring in our proper standard deviation. New team members were what we call chaperoned their first time out. They get watched and tested, if they pass they're ready to play for real on the team. I hope this info helps. Good Luck
  • Bojack that all sounds pretty cool. I'm wondering how do you determine a bankroll for a team, and how do you divide it for team play. Also what are the roles of each member once they walk into the casino? I read on one of your previous posts how you shuffle track and play a cut game, is there a good way to practice this that you could recommend? Are you looking for any fresh new faces for the team-- Just playing. Peace Out
  • Dol Bil Tink said:
    Hey Andee, liten-up. You had to know that my “Thin To Win” post was meant to be a lite-hearted, tongue in cheek type question. If you thought I was serious, I’ll be more careful with my humor.
    Whether you believe my play record or not is of no consequence. My post was not meant to be vicious or insulting. The point I was trying to make is that there are some of us that are able to take the gamble out of the game. I don’t mean to imply that it’s easy or that winning can be done constantly or consistently. On the contrary. A winning edge requires a great deal of hard work and discipline. I just don’t want you discouraging any of the novices that might be reading your posts. By the way, I’ll be in CT Thurs. and Fri. I’ll let you know how I make out.

    Hey Dol how did you do last week, are you still on a roll. Do you play at Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods, or do you play both. If you do which one do you like better and why?
  • PROGRESSIONIST said:
    Hey-
    I think perhaps Andee is actually that guy who got kicked off here maybe a year ago-can't recall his name but I'd recognize it if I heard it again. What do you guys think?
    Prog


    I miss The Bughousemaster too.
  • Andee said:
    Hey Dol how did you do last week, are you still on a roll. Do you play at Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods, or do you play both. If you do which one do you like better and why?

    We were able to wack them for $1,350, but it wasn’t pretty. We were down nearly 2K before we were able to hook into a good shoe.
    We went to Foxwoods. I went to Mohegan Sun once several years ago. In fact, I prefer AC or LV to CT, only because I enjoy getting out for some fresh air and changing venues.
    I’m off to Florida tomorrow for some R&R. We’ll probably try AC when I return in late April.
    Tell me Andee, how was your last gaming experience?
  • Dol Bil Tink said:
    We were able to wack them for $1,350, but it wasn’t pretty. We were down nearly 2K before we were able to hook into a good shoe.
    We went to Foxwoods. I went to Mohegan Sun once several years ago. In fact, I prefer AC or LV to CT, only because I enjoy getting out for some fresh air and changing venues.
    I’m off to Florida tomorrow for some R&R. We’ll probably try AC when I return in late April.
    Tell me Andee, how was your last gaming experience?


    Im glad you walked out a winner..
  • Glad to see team-play here in CT... even if 2 years ago. Theres been other teams here too, since then. I would think the 6-deck game at Mohegan was preffered. It is by yours truly. Recently, about 6 months ago was the last wave of what I sussed was team play. Whoever these people were, the large bets were quite distinct. As I'm usually a 1-4 player, slapping 400 on the table after 100 gets my attention... and this while I was in the 50 minimum area. On the main floor, that would have been ID time... and not sure if the table got ID'd anyway.

    It would appear that parlay-up is STILL not the choice of these kind of teams. IMHO at 6 decks and a few players, theres time for it. As opposed to say a full table, or fewer decks.

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