Blackjack unbeatable with modern rules
  • There are so many rules that casino have with blackjack that it just is not beatable anymore. If the casino that you are playing at has these rules not even a card counter can beat it. You have to understand that a good card counter had only a 1-2% advantage before these rules. A perfect basic stragedy player had a .5% disadvantage in these days now a perfect basic stragedy player has a 2% or more disadvantage because of modern rules.

    Dealer hits soft 17 that rule a lot of players confuse as advantage for the player its not it add a 2-3% for the house the good card counter is wiped out.
    double down on 10 or 11 only this takes away some of the basic stragedy.

    Blackjack pays 6 to 5 even the best card counter cant beat this game.

    A six deck shoe is more beatable now because you have less of the bad rules the only problem is a count of plus 6 gives you the same advantage as plus 1 in a single deck game so you would need a count of about plus 12 to get the advantgage something that will almost never happen because the average count is zero. Even if it does happen understand that on any given hand the most amount advantage you can have is a 51% percent advantage. If it was a poker game it be like have a pair of deuces Verses A-K suited at the very best.
  • learningtocount said:
    There are so many rules that casino have with blackjack that it just is not beatable anymore. If the casino that you are playing at has these rules not even a card counter can beat it. You have to understand that a good card counter had only a 1-2% advantage before these rules. A perfect basic stragedy player had a .5% disadvantage in these days now a perfect basic stragedy player has a 2% or more disadvantage because of modern rules.

    Dealer hits soft 17 that rule a lot of players confuse as advantage for the player its not it add a 2-3% for the house the good card counter is wiped out.
    double down on 10 or 11 only this takes away some of the basic stragedy.

    Blackjack pays 6 to 5 even the best card counter cant beat this game.

    A six deck shoe is more beatable now because you have less of the bad rules the only problem is a count of plus 6 gives you the same advantage as plus 1 in a single deck game so you would need a count of about plus 12 to get the advantgage something that will almost never happen because the average count is zero. Even if it does happen understand that on any given hand the most amount advantage you can have is a 51% percent advantage. If it was a poker game it be like have a pair of deuces Verses A-K suited at the very best.


    This post is full of misinformation. There are a lot of good games and rules still: double deck, S17, DAS. When the dealer hits soft 17 it adds about .2 percent advantage not 2-3%.I dont know anyone who believes this helps the player. 51% advantage? I want to play in that game!!!
  • [QUOTE=learningtocount]There are so many rules that casino have with blackjack that it just is not beatable anymore. If the casino that you are playing at has these rules not even a card counter can beat it. You have to understand that a good card counter had only a 1-2% advantage before these rules. A perfect basic stragedy player had a .5% disadvantage in these days now a perfect basic stragedy player has a 2% or more disadvantage because of modern rules.

    Dealer hits soft 17 that rule a lot of players confuse as advantage for the player its not it add a 2-3% for the house the good card counter is wiped out.

    I think as Cass said, you missed the decimal point here. It is a bad rule but it cost the player .2% and not 2.%
    double down on 10 or 11 only this takes away some of the basic stragedy.

    This is also bad for the player but costs less than hitting soft 17Blackjack pays 6 to 5 even the best card counter cant beat this game.

    At least you have this one correct.

    A six deck shoe is more beatable now because you have less of the bad rules the only problem is a count of plus 6 gives you the same advantage as plus 1 in a single deck game so you would need a count of about plus 12 to get the advantgage something that will almost never happen because the average count is zero.

    You take your running count and divide it by the amount of decks undealt so far. So if your running count is 6, with nearly 6 decks left, your count is +1, but if there are only two decks left, your true count is now +3. A running count of 12 happens often enough with perhaps 3 decks left or less!!!, giving you a count where you can really make money. You have running count and true count completely confused.

    Even if it does happen understand that on any given hand the most amount advantage you can have is a 51% percent advantage. If it was a poker game it be like have a pair of deuces Verses A-K suited at the very best.

    Have no idea what you really mean here.

    But many shoe games today offer better rules and have lower house edges. Since it is just as easy to count a six deck shoe (my opinion) than even a single deck game, if the shoe is better play it. The best shoes in Vegas have a house edge of .26%, and you can find them for as low as a $10 bet.

    Oh and by the way, as a serious partime player (playing perhaps 80 days a year), I have made over six figures in the past 5 years. A nice side income.

    ihate17
  • Even if it does happen understand that on any given hand the most amount advantage you can have is a 51% percent advantage. If it was a poker game it be like have a pair of deuces Verses A-K suited at the very bestx


    You misunderstand the basic concepts behind counting. A one percent edge does not mean you have a one percent greater chance of winning your next hand. So it is not equivalent to a 51% vs. 49% all-in situation in hold'em poker. The house is still more likely to win the next hand on a typical positive count. The player's edge comes from the 3:2 blackjack payout, and his play deviations such as the ability to double down.

    The edge is expressed in terms of expected gain. If your edge is 1%, you can expect a one percent return on your money in the long run. For instance, if you bet 100 dollars, you can expect to make one dollar. It may not sound like much, but it accumulates over time.

    Also note that the 1-2 percent edge is an average edge. There can be times when your advantage may be many times that number depending on the count.

    For these preceding reasons, to make decent money in blackjack you need a large bankroll. If you bet peanuts, you will win peanuts in return.
  • I am fortunate to have near-by casinos with decent games and rules. I regret Learningtocount has a grim view of the game. If my games deteriorate the same, I'll just spend more time on the golf course. There certainly are other activities out there.
  • I'm just saying that no matter how good of a player you are and how good you can count you are not a favorite to win money because of all the new rules.
  • It may not be easy to win at blackjack, and of course there are no gaurantees on winning everytime, but there is not a single casino game that you are the favorite to win, including poker. But like poker there are hands you are statistically favored to win, but that does not mean you will win overall, and thats the same for any game. With blackjack you can put the odds in your favor and there are more ways than just counting to do it, which if played properly and consistantly will give you an edge on the overall game. My advice to you is learn more and practice, because general statements like blackjack is unbeatable with modern rules is a misinformed opinion that I would hope other novices would not take to heart and get discouraged. There are games with bad rules out there, don't play them. There are games out there that have had the same good rules for many years, play them. Its that easy. I assure you this game can still be beat, if they don't offer a good rules game near you, than travel and find a good one. Its not that the game is unbeatable, its how committed you are to beating it. If you just play occasionally, recreationally than don't worry about it. But if you're serious about being an advantage player and winning, than you can't be lazy and take whats given, you need to be disciplined in where and how you play. I hope if you continue to play blackjack you will eventually see what I mean. Good Luck.
  • learningtocount said:
    I'm just saying that no matter how good of a player you are and how good you can count you are not a favorite to win money because of all the new rules.


    Guess you did not read or if your read my post did not check out your big number mistake or you would only say what you said about the 6/5 game and not about most other blackjack games. There is a huge huge difference between your incorrect post of 2-3% for hitting soft 17 and the mathematical truth that the difference is only .2%.
    Only doubling on 10 or 11 does exist but it is generally only found on single deck and bad double deck games.

    Please check your information before you tout statistics because someone might believe you. It is different than just giving an opinion.

    ihate17
  • learningtocount said:
    I'm just saying that no matter how good of a player you are and how good you can count you are not a favorite to win money because of all the new rules.


    I think learningtocount needs to learn a little more, but he seems unteachable. He and Alexd30 should go start a team and they can use Alexd30's "HUGE" bankroll!:cool:
  • For hitting soft 17 I was thinking how much more likely the dealer is to win the hand when they do that and it is 2-3 more often that they will win the hand. I wasn't thinking of the overall effect.
  • learningtocount said:
    For hitting soft 17 I was thinking how much more likely the dealer is to win the hand when they do that and it is 2-3 more often that they will win the hand. I wasn't thinking of the overall effect.



    Not sure what you mean but
    31% of the time their hand will stay the same.
    31% of the time their hand will improve but still may not change from loser to winner
    38% of the time they must hit at least 2 cards and can either stay the same, improve or bust.

    Do not forget in the game where the dealer stays on soft 17 there will be hands where you double vs a dealer 6 and by having an ace in the hole the dealer lands up taking your money, so the difference is big but not so huge to make the game unbeatable, just harder to beat. Hitting soft 17 is a bad rule for the player, increases casino profits but it is far from a 2-3% rule.

    ihate17
  • I appreciate all your input on this subject.

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