Question For Fred Renzey
  • Hi Fred-
    In the Big Book of Blackjack Arnold Snyder tells us how to beat Lucky Ladies.
    In a 6 deck shoe game using the Red Seven count he says to only bet during the last 2 decks of the shoe and only with a count of +10 or higher.
    Question:If I'm playing the 6 deck shoe game using the Kiss III count and only making the Lucky Ladies bet during the last 2 decks what count should I wait for before making the bet???
    Thanks Fred!
  • I believe that the Lucky Ladies becomes profitable around a true count of +7.

    Note that with KISSIII since it is unbalanced you only know the exact true count when the count is 21 (true = +2). At all other running counts the true count varies depending on how many decks remain.

    Here's an example:
    Decks Remaining
    Rc 5 deck 4 decks 3 decks 2 decks 1 deck 0.5 decks
    32 4.2 4.8 5.7 7.5 13 24 True Counts

    You won't usually get a running count of 32 until pretty late in the shoe and this is the criteria I use for the Lucky Ladies. If I get a count of 32 early (with say 5 decks remaining) then wouldn't bet LL unless the count is "45" or higher. But "32" seems like a reasonable estimated time to play LL.

    Here are some more accurate cutoffs:

    5 deck remaining: "45" or higher
    4 deck remaining: "40" or higher
    3 deck remaining: "35" or higher
    2 deck remaining: "30" or higher
    1.5 deck remaining: "28" or higher
    1 deck remaining: "26" or higher

    It seems that "32" is a conservative "average" especially since the really high counts rarely occur with 4 - 5 decks remaining.

    Just my 2 cents...
    I'm sure Fred can elaborate...
  • hi paganguy-
    sure ish Fred would answer this question for you because i'd sure like to know the answer too! would just like to know the count when it pays to make the lucky ladies bet using kiss III,plain and simple!
  • Sorry guys -- I just have never seen the Lucky Ladies bet and don't know how it works. Please explain it to me and I'll probably be able to figure out what to do with it.
  • Hey Grif,
    Can You Help Us Here And Explain Lucky Ladies To Fred?
  • PaganGuy - I'll try.....Here ya' go.

    Fred - Lucky Ladies is prop bet where the player wins if his blackjack hand totals 20. It has become fairly common in the last five years or so. The "Lucky Ladies" name comes from two queens of hearts being the best hand (highest payout). The payouts vary from casino to casino but the following would be pretty close to "standard".
    - Pair of Queens of Hearts when Dealer has BJ - Pays 1000:1
    - Pair of Queens of Hearts - Pays 125:1
    - 20 of Same Rank & Suit - Pays 19:1
    - 20 of Same Suit - Pays 9:1
    - 20 Unsuited - Pays 4:1
    Depending on the number of decks and the exact payout the HA will run from about 20% to 35%.....with 6 deck and the payouts above, HA would be about 25%.

    As Skunk said above the bet supposedly becomes profitable to the player at a TC=+7; therefore, I would estimate you could play it with 6-deck KISS III at about an RC = +32 or +33.

    Hope this helps.....Grifter

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