Booker said:

I just wanted to update the progress me and my buddies have been making playing "advantage" blackjack. One word- AWESOME! We started with $3000 between 3 guys. Our first trip using the cut card placement game and a little counting we made an additional $3300. The bankroll than became $6300. Next we went to A.C. to the casino Bojack told us to hit for the cut game. Well we stayed 3 days and 2 nights and made an additional $3800. We made one more trip up to the upstate NY casino, The Turning Stone, and beat them for another $1200. The bankroll is now over $11,000 on just 3 trips. Now my question is what else can we do to capitalize on our now much bigger bankroll? We've tried shuffletracking but its not working out, my buddies can't count good enough yet. Are there any other techniques out there we can use that are compareable to the cut game in advantage and success? This sure has been fun, I'd like to keep it going. Thanks for any advice.

I don't know the details, but it sounds liek you have gotten extremely lucky. Congradulations on your early success. My suggestion would be that now you have a substantial BR dont overbet it. Keep your top bet at 1% of your total BR. that way you will be much less likely to give a lot of it back. Overbetting kills Bankrolls!!!

Booker, It sounds like you're doing great, congratulations. It seems you're a quick study. But be forewarned you are definitely going to lose sometimes so don't be careless with your bankroll. $11,000 is nice but if played carelessly between 3 people its really nothing. For a conservative approach I would divide the bankroll by between 400 or 500 to find a proper betting unit. Somewhere in the vicinity of $25. You might find that a little conservative, but if your counting is not quite up to par I think you'll be safe with that unit until it is. In the meantime it will still be a large enough unit to take advantage of the cut game you've been doing so well with. But you should get everybody to really start counting well so you can take advantage of more than just the sloppy dealers. Shuffletracking works best with really good meticulous dealers. So once you get that down you won't have to search for a specific type of dealer, you'll have techniques that have a good chance of beating all of them. Keep up the good work and practice, practice, practice. Good Luck

Thanks for all the input, but I think there is something most of you are missing. We are playing a technique where the advantage can range from 13% to 51%, even 100% if we make the dealer bust. Its not your typical 1% to 2% counting game. Although we do count (mostly me, but the others are getting better) its more to hold down the fort while we wait for another chance to steer a card into our hand. We have lost some big hands, but we've won more than we lost. I know its not a sure thing to win all the time, but this I know, with advantage percentages that high in our favor we have a better shot than just counting. Bojack I know you understand this because I learned it from you. So far its been excellent, when we lose its okay because we know the potential is always there. We will keep working on the counting and shuffletracking to broaden our possibilities, but in the meantime this is just what I said before AWESOME. I can't believe more players don't do this. Bojack you should write a book. Anyway thanks and I'll keep posting my results, good or bad.

I would like to know if with this cut card placement system if Booker's results are fairly typical or is this beginners luck? I know with counting these type of results would be purely luck, but I have no idea what one should expect from this cut card technique. I don't understand how it works, but those kind of advantage percentages seem that it might be possible to win fairly regularly. How does this system create such big advantage? I'm very curious as to the whole truth behind this. I would hope some of you experienced players could enlighten me on this. I would like to hear from Bojack about this, but really anyone's input would be appreciated.

Keep double your money and do not lose back any more than that. About ten years there was the MIT blackjack team that one a million dollars playing blackjack and got kicked out of a lot of casinos. The kicker is they ended up losing all or most of the money back.

learningtocount said:

Keep double your money and do not lose back any more than that. About ten years there was the MIT blackjack team that one a million dollars playing blackjack and got kicked out of a lot of casinos. The kicker is they ended up losing all or most of the money back.

I'm convinced learningtocount works for the casinos.

I learned this cut card placement technique from one of the best, Semyon Dukach. I was lucky enough to meet him back in 1989 when we both were attending the same school in NYC. We graduated in 1990 and he went on to MIT to get his masters and I stayed in NY and got a job. Obviously that was when he got into the blackjack scene. We still kept in touch during that time, and he would tell me about this blackjack adventure he was on but I thought it was mostly bull. That was until 1994 when he visited me in NY with a ridiculous amount of cash. Right then I was hooked. Over the next year I learned all the MIT techniques from him and even passed a modified MIT checkout test. I never played on their team, but I started my own on a much smaller scale. By the end of 1996 I started playing full time and never looked back. My favorite gambling story comes from the MGM in vegas in 2001. I met Semyon there, by this time it was almost impossible for him to play there anymore. So for fun we made a $1 bet. The bet was we would go in, no teams, just us, and play. Low stakes $10 table, and whoever had the most money by the time they kicked him out won the bet. It took all of 40 minutes and when we tallyed up the money I beat him $305 to $200. He paid up and to this day I have that dollar framed and hanging in my office at home. I truly know I will never be as good as he was, but that win was as fun to me as winning thousands. Soon after it became increasingly harder for me to play in Vegas because of my association with him, so I stopped going for the sake of my team. We really don't speak that much anymore but nevertheless thats how I learned what I do. And thats my favorite gambling story.

cass said:

I'm convinced learningtocount works for the casinos.

I was thinking he might be a shill,ug!

One can make a living 'simply' counting cards, there is no doubt about it. Of course any little trick to get a nick % advantage over the house should be employed. I do feel strongly though that the majority of count systems out there are weaker than they need to be, dumbing themselves down to appeal to the masses who buy the books. You are only human, you can't be expected to keep a separate count for insurance, a separate side count of aces to adjust for betting and for playing, and then figure out the running count and adjust it for a betting count and a true count on how to play the hands...or can you? You'd be amazed what you can do if you get it out of your mind you can't do it...

Stick

TCash, yes I've been playing blackjack for a living for the past ten years. As far as what size bankroll you need is totally dependant on the amount of advantage techniques you've mastered, and what type of lifestyle you had previously, and do you have to maintain that certain lifestyle, or can you alter it as you build up a larger bankroll. When I first started doing this fulltime, I was 29 with no real commitments, so there was no pressure of having to provide for anyone but myself. If you have a family and a mortgage and real responsibilities I suggest you don't try live on playing blackjack unless you are very skilled at advantage play, and have at least a six figure bankroll. And even then there are no guarantees. As far as percentage of counting to other techniques we use, thats difficult to say because we are always counting and most of the other methods work off of that. But roughly I'd say about 30% of the time we're working on some sort of shuffletrack or cut game. And yes I believe someone could make A living simply counting, but again they would need a sizeable bankroll, and would have to have outstanding counting abilities. As far as an MIT checkout, that is a test given that you must pass before you can play in a casino. It consisted of counting through 5 four deck shoes with lots of typical casino distractions, having to always know the proper running count, true count, changes to basic strategy based on the count, proper bet sizing, and making sure all payouts were correct. You are allowed 3 mistakes, but say you're running count was off by 2 that counts as 2 mistakes. So whatever the amount you were off would count as that many mistakes, it is quite difficult. So I think I covered all your questions , if not let me know. My advice to anyone wanting to make a living at this game, be sure you're real good, have a large bankroll, and don't burn your bridges at your old job, theres a good chance you'll be going back.

Booker glad to hear that you are kicking butt up to this point. While you are playing at a level far above my own my gut tells me $20000 is not enough cash for a 3 member team. Also sounds that you are betting far above Kelly so your ROR might be alittle high dont you think? Before you quit your job maybe you might wait until after you first bad losing session to see how you and your team handle things. Would try to add more outside cash to the BR whatever happens.Keep up the good work

Booker said:

nctom, Thanks for the input and the concern, I'll take any advice I can get. But as far as betting the Kelly criterion, basically broken down I thought it meant to for every percent of advantage you have bet that percentage of your bankroll. So even with a $10,000 bankroll if I'm landing an ace in my hand I have about a 51% advantage, which would mean a $5100 bet. Ive never bet that much ever but I have put up $1000 on it. So if anything I'm underbetting using Kelly. This way of playing is so different than just counting I think different betting rules apply. I'm still learning, but I must say so far I've never had that feeling of desparation even when I lose $2000 in 1 hour. Anymore info from anyone is appreciated. Thanks

I dont think that is correct about the kelly thing. Wouldnt it be a 50% advantage if you knew you were getting a BJ? 3:2? Also you seem to know when you are getting a ACE which is great, but you arent certain that you will have a ten to match. Wait til you lose 2000 in a hour and then another 2000 in the next hour and you dont make it back up. It will happen. When you are winning and winnig you feel on top of the world. Thinking about quiting your day job... whatever been there. When i first started counting i won my first 9 sessions in a row. Then i lost all the money over the next few sessions due to overbetting. The most recommended to bet is usually 1% of your total BR top bet. I would say even with your cut game you are playing. Maybe 2% with that im not sure. So with your br for your team you could each have a top bet of $200 just regular counting. You should have pretty solid profits. That would be my advice. Btw- a few weeks ago i was playing and i was up a few thousand. Starting betting 500x2 in a astronimicaly high count. All i got was 10/4's 10/5's 10'6's. Dealer had twenty alomst everytime. In about a third of a shoe i dropped $4000! It can and does happen. Now i've been grinding it out over the last couple weeks trying to win my money back. I need to take my own advice!! You will win more in the long run no overbetting your BR!

Booker said:

Just got back from A.C. yesterday. Let me tell youI'm seriously contemplating taking a leave of absence from my regular job. We got to A.C. on thursday night, it was kind of crowded so we really didn't play until 4 am Friday morning. We made $900 in 2 hours. Friday was mobbed so we barely played until late that night. The crowd was still heavy at night so we decide to take a chance and play the high rollers pit because there was no crowd in there and we could get our own table. So me and one of my partners took $5000 a piece and sat down in the high rollers pit and left our other partner with $2000 to be called in if we landed something to shuffletrack. In 1 hour we lost $2000 because our cut game didn't work out for us. We landed an ace both times perfectly, but it was matched with a 4 the first time, and a 5 the next, we lost both times. On top of that there was nothing really notable to track. And then it all changed. Over the next 5 hours we won back our $2000 that we lost plus another $4000. The only reason we quit was we were exausted. Saturday night all three of us sat in the high rollers pit. We stayed there for 7 hours and made another $4700, for atotal profit on the trip of $9600. Our bankroll is now over $20,000. At this point I believe with a little luck, and the playing methods we use we can beat the casinos on a fairly regular basis. My only question is, is $20,000 enough to play this game full time. I'm only 25 with no real responsibilities and so are my partners. I'm thinking we can do it. Any opinions, I'd like to hear them.

You should let me know when you are counting what games you are playing and what your bet spread is like. I will tell you your ROR and avg profit per hour if you care. (BJRM 02)

Booker said:

Hello Cass, You see the thing is I don't feel I'm overbetting my bankroll. I think the problem is experienced players who count can't understand the cut game's advantages when played correctly. Just recently we played $100 dollar minumum tables because we had to, to get anywhere between a 13% and 100% advantage. Usually we only bet $25 minimums. But because we could'nt get our own table we took a chance and it worked out for us. Now with the the bankroll we have I believe we can seriously bet $100 minimums. I really need Bojack to step up and explain what is going on here. He walked me through every step of the way on this. He can explain why we can bet and win more than just an average counter. Cass you realized it yourself, when I know I'm getting an ace its a 51% advantage. When as a counter do you have that.... NEVER! This system, along with counting is as close to unbeatable as you can get. I know I can still lose, but I also know I will win more than I will lose because the math says so. And thats what all counters should understand. The house has the advantage because they go last, and even if they bust but you busted first they win. You change it all when you know what you're getting in your hand before you bet, or even better if you know what the dealer holds in his hand. This is a powerful way to play. Please talk to Bojack about it . Practice it. Its not like anything you'll ever experience as a counter. I'm beginning to see how the MIT students usually always won, and just plain counters struggle just to see a small advantage. Please believe me you need more.

I understand how it works. I actually know of some games I coudl use this. Including a DD game. However i dont have a team that we could all get on the table together. So it would be almost impossible to steer the card to my advantage. I dont know what the answer is for the top bet in the cut card game. $100 minimums? You shouldnt be betting that big with your br unless you have the advantage. When you say $100 min. bet, to me that means you bet $100 flat bet until you have a positive expectation and then you increase from there. Sounds pretty risky.

Bojack I must say I'm disapointed with your reaction to my success. Of all people I thought you would understand how it is. Are you that pompous to think you're the only one that can do this for a living? I can't believe you don't have faith in your own system of playing. The same one you taught me, and now I'm winning tremendously and all of a sudden I'm just lucky? Maybe there's some luck involved, but I'm also pretty darn good at it. Well its too bad I don't have your support, but honestly I don't need it. I play the tables, you don't play them for me. In 2 weeks my team and I go full time. Then you'll see whats what. I'll post my trips good or bad. All I can say to the doubters prepare to eat your words.

Hey Booker what the hell happened to you? You went from being a newbie who wanted to learn something, to a know it all jerk. How did you become such an expert in just a couple of months. You asked for advice and everybody said the same thing, congratulations, but don't quit your job. Learn some more, see how the team handles losses, get a larger bankroll, bet smaller, all these things were told to you but you refuse to listen. I think the money got to your head, and if winning a few thousand screws you up, I can only imagine what losing a few might do to you. I agree with Cass, I bet you'll be broke a month after you try to play full time. I just hope your honest when it all comes crashing down so all those who tried to help you can say I told you so.

Booker said:

Bojack I must say I'm disapointed with your reaction to my success. Of all people I thought you would understand how it is. Are you that pompous to think you're the only one that can do this for a living? I can't believe you don't have faith in your own system of playing. The same one you taught me, and now I'm winning tremendously and all of a sudden I'm just lucky? Maybe there's some luck involved, but I'm also pretty darn good at it. Well its too bad I don't have your support, but honestly I don't need it. I play the tables, you don't play them for me. In 2 weeks my team and I go full time. Then you'll see whats what. I'll post my trips good or bad. All I can say to the doubters prepare to eat your words.

Booker most everyone who has weighed in on this thread wishes you well but do not let you ego get in the way of your common sense.20 grand is not that much money.tread lightly,I,ll be happy to eat my words if you kick butt. BUT if not I would expect you to fess up.

Booker don't worry about the comments. But I do have some advice I wish you would listen to. If the casino you are going to this weekend in CT is Mohegan Sun, DO NOT play the cut game in the high rollers pit. They are aware of this type of play there and they can figure it out quickly if you don't have expert cover play. Even then if you beat them a few times big they will no longer allow you to cut the deck where you want, and if you do get caught they are very aggressive about backing you off. If you must play the cut game back it down to the $25 tables. If you scouted it out you must've seen they do have alot of sloppy dealers, and if played at the right tables the cut game will work nicely. Just don't do it on the black tables, even if the dealers are a bit sloppy, the pit bosses can see an obvious cut game very easily. I suggest if you want to play the black tables than just count, or even better shuffletrack if your team is proficient at it. The weekends there are very busy so the cut game might be hard to do at the green tables, but I'm sure you can find something on the graveyard shift. Anyway thats my advice, take it or leave it, I just thought you should know.

Progressionist, I don't know what Semyon Dukach looks like, but I met Bojack today at Mohegan Sun, so tell me what this guy Semyon looks like and I'll tell you if its him. What a blast hanging with this guy. I feel very humbled and stupid now that I saw some real advantage play. Him and one of his teamates were kind enough to actually show up just for the day to help me get my head on straight. I watched, and played when told to, as these guys emptied 3 dealers trays of blacks and pinks, all in just 5 hours! I don't know what the final take for the day was, but I know I got only a small percentage of what they got, and I got just over $3000. The amazing thing was never did it seem even with these big winnings that the dealer or the pit was suspicious. I've got to be honest I could'nt even tell you how they were doing it, sometimes it seemed it had nothing to do with the count. I mean they say its done with shuffletracking, but I still could'nt follow it. I'm still going foward with my plan to play full time but I will do it more conservatively than originally planned. I apologize for losing my head, and a million thanks to Bojack and his friend for a great lesson. What an experience!

Why on earth would you discuss this on a public forum?

Do you want to burn your own bridge?

Why not just give us and the casino the date, time and pit# so we can all enjoy!

Here I was trying to calculate how many $2.50 chips(pink in AC) you'd need to pocket $3,000.!!!!!!

Booker said:

Well we did it again. Our first trip as full timers netted us $2400. I know its not a killing, but its a win. We toned it down a little and played a $25 - $200 spread. Except with the cut game where we did a $50-$500 spread. Nothing real exciting happened, just good consistent playing. Still can't land the shuffletrack like Bojack, but we'll keep trying because seeing that work first hand has got me really motivated to get it down, it's a pretty powerful thing to play. Its just hard to master. We also stayed away from the high rollers pit like we were advised and we got absolutely no heat. So with the $3000 I got with Bojack and the $2400 from this past weekend thats another $5400. Half is going to the bankroll the other half in our pockets. Thats how we're going to try to work it for now. Next trip is thursday for 2 days. Our goal is to get our bankroll up to $50,000 then hit Vegas. I'll keep posting the results as we go.

Excellent! Good luck!