Help for new counter's group
  • Hey there,
    I'm hoping some seasoned pro can help me out here, but anyone who has any ideas on my problem are welcome...

    I am starting up a counting group with four of my old highschool buddies. So far a couple of us have already been going to casinos to count, and the rest of us are practicing the regular hi/low count. Our goal is to get together around 3 grand to play 5 dollar min tables with a large betting spread. Right now we aren't to worried about heat as none of us have ever been backed off or anything. So we are also planning to backcount frequently in order to gain a bigger edge.

    So anyway.... my main problem is the group. we are all contributing different amounts towards the bankroll. also i want it so people can get into our group and leave whenever i want. i know tommy hyland played groups similar to what i'm doing througout his career, and he must have had a system to make this work, if anyone knows what that is it will be much appreciated.

    Also basically we plan to all use the bankroll and go to casino in either pairs or individually in order to max out the # of hours the bankroll is in play. If anyone has any other suggestions about counting, betting, or lemme know.

    thanks all,
    dan
  • Seems like what you're trying to do is simple enough...

    Anytime someone wants to drop out, if you are ahead, you take the total current bankroll * percentage of starting bankroll contributed by player dropping out....you give that amount to the player and tell him to have a nice day.

    If you are down, you do the same thing...you take the total current bankroll * percentage of starting bankroll contributed by player dropping out....you give that amount to the player and tell him to have a nice day.
  • shouldent you split the bankroll and give him his share? like you guys made 1000$ and have 3 players then u give him 333.33$?
  • pimpto said:
    Hey there,
    I'm hoping some seasoned pro can help me out here, but anyone who has any ideas on my problem are welcome...

    I am starting up a counting group with four of my old highschool buddies. So far a couple of us have already been going to casinos to count, and the rest of us are practicing the regular hi/low count. Our goal is to get together around 3 grand to play 5 dollar min tables with a large betting spread. Right now we aren't to worried about heat as none of us have ever been backed off or anything. So we are also planning to backcount frequently in order to gain a bigger edge.

    So anyway.... my main problem is the group. we are all contributing different amounts towards the bankroll. also i want it so people can get into our group and leave whenever i want. i know tommy hyland played groups similar to what i'm doing througout his career, and he must have had a system to make this work, if anyone knows what that is it will be much appreciated.

    Also basically we plan to all use the bankroll and go to casino in either pairs or individually in order to max out the # of hours the bankroll is in play. If anyone has any other suggestions about counting, betting, or lemme know.

    thanks all,
    dan

    So pimpto time to take a break.First off are you and the other members of your "team" proficent in basic stradgy so that you can play it without thinking and without error? Second 5 grand is hardly enough bankroll to support the play of one person much less 5 people. Third you need to write down EVERYTHING so that all players are in agreement with the plan. Fourth I would have you and all your team mates read Blackbelt in Blackjack together and memorize it. Use it as your bible. Good luck and get some more money together before you start.
  • okay... i don't think you guys understand. the main problem arises in the area of unbalanced contributions to the bankroll and the fact that players will have different amount of playing time at caisnos. The system of division must reward players who contribute more and players who play more.

    the idea i have for division of funds is 50% divided among the investors (% of total bankroll provided gets that much percent of the investors 50%) and 50% for the number of hours people play at the casino (the % of the total group hours you have played individually, you get that much of the other players 50%)

    @nc, i think you know what i was talking about but you failed to give me any real help other than a caution. i can do teh hit or stand game and my best bonus round is 16, although i get more than 10 consistently. A couple of my comrades are better than me and a couple are worse. I do realize we need a lot more practice, but I still want to get the kinks of forming a group worked out before i can attempt to explain to my friends whats going on exactly. I would think 5 grand for a 5 dollar table shld be sufficient, no? the extra players just means more playing time.
  • why dont all you guys agree on a certain amount and at the end split it evenly

    or if one player puts in 20% of the bankroll at first, and then gets another 20% playing you then give him 40% of the total earnings?
  • Suppose you desire a team to put up 3G's as you say. EQUAL contribution is the rule. Insufficient funds are OUT.

    Contributors each take x% to the tables and return ALL proceeds after the session completes. This process repeats until the bankroll achieves sustainability to the 2x bet, and continues.

    I see the phrase "large betting spread" BAD IDEA !!!
    1-6 MAXIMUM.

    If you cant make $$$ with 1-4, then you won't make $$$ with 1-10. $5 tables generally don't like green chip bets, especially $50 bets. You wanna bet SIX RED, fine with me, but KEEP THE GREENIES OFF THE TABLE. Make sure every participant adheres to that rule.

    JM2c
  • right now we are not going to worry about heat whatsoever. the only thing we are looking for is maximizing our edge. so my plan is to stand in a group and backcount two tables simultaneously, when one is at a true count of 6 we hit it with 50 dollar bets and keep playing there until it goes down to 1

    the only reason you seemed to give me about a larger betting spread being a bad idea is heat. but the thing is that everyone from my team will be going back to school come september, and with 3 pre-med students, and among other tough programs we are in we probably won't have any time for blackjack until christmas or even next summer.

    i've only started counting but am hoping to be able to hit a sino within a month or so. i can do a single deck countdown using the hi/low in 20 seconds, i figure thats pretty decent, so we're gonna test ourselves in a weekend (count successfully 4 4 deck shoes, while placing the right bet amount, checking for dealer errors in payouts and music/tv going). speaking of which, how important is it right now to memorize BS changes according to the count? and anyone have a good website for that?
  • Comment: I sounds to me like you are trying to master in 40 days what it has taken me, and others, 40 years to master (and I still haven't done it).

    But best of luck to you.

    Regards.....Grifter
  • Pimpto - Listen to nc-tom, N&B and Grifter, don’t just blow them off. There’s a lot of wisdom and experience in what they are saying. Believe it or not, they are on your side. Over time, I have seen many Junior Members aspire to do the same as you. They too are cautioned and they too have it all figured out. We rarely hear from them again.
    The math was done a half century ago and it’s not going to change. Counting is only elementary school arithmetic. Your teams primary concern should not be how to split the winnings. Where you guys need preparation is for the day your bankroll goes to zero and your friendships follow.
  • Being able to count down a deck in 20-25 seconds is about 10% of what it takes to gain an edge in BJ. Knowing what you are doing is the other 90%. Grifter's comments and others suggest that you may need to develop some method to your attemps at learning.

    Suggest that you read thru the blackjack school from the link at BJ21.com.
    There you will find a logical and sequenced process that will answer most, if not all, your questions. Lucky for you...his method is none other than H/L.
  • hey ray, i know the school you're talking about.... right now i'm working through the lessons of blackjack-school.com which bj21.com has copied i believe.

    anyway, @Dol - i'm not blowing anyone off here.... all the pros have suggested so far is 1) don't over bet your bankroll 2) get better at blackjack. and i say we have no more money and only 2 months before school starts and we play no BJ until next summer. i know exactly how standard deviation works having taken courses in calculus and statistics. what i'm saying is that with our busy schedules we just don't have the time to read a bunch of books. i think we're just gonna go with the division method i mentioned earlier.

    and by the way all the money that we're scraping together here is money we've all already won either playing poker or online blackjack cause of bonuses.

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