Stop The Madness Continued
  • Alittle something I ran across the coinsides with my thoughts and rantings on the state of our beloved game. Time to start saving BJ from the corporate pinheads.http://scoblete.casinocitytimes.com/articles/28188.html
  • unfortunately, I don't believe this will help at all. Knowledgable players don't play CSM games. But when you walk thru a casino and notice all the low limit tables are CSM, and all are full, you realize that most of the players are _not_ knowledgable. When you see the SD game near the front of the tables, and see it full, and you see "blackjack pays 6:5" you also realize that the casinos are targeting the masses, not the few smart players that know better. They have made the decison "so what if we lose the smarter players when we degrade the rules, we will still have full tables with ploppies with money to lose, and that's all we need..."

    Supply and demand works well. Unfortunately, the "demand" by experienced players is very small compared to the ploppy demand...

    I think S17 is almost dead now. Other more common rule changes (split aces, get one card on each, no double allowed on split aces, no surrender, etc.) all show that we are not the targeted audience, which is sad... SD blackjack (most places) is now worse than Craps for house advantage, which is sadder still, when this should be _the_ game to play.
  • he says to never play in a game that doesnt have DAS, good luck finding a SD game then, that may never happen again

    he also says to save your cash until at least some of the rules revert back to the old days, i think there are enough ploppies to compensate for this, and i think the rules will never get better

    but how much worse could they get....?

    how about 8D, CSM used, H17, No DAS, Double only 10 and 11

    that might be the future, a very bleak one
  • The bottom line is that casinos do what is best for casinos.
    Most players don't care to learn how to count,if they know anything about it.
    If a player chooses to play a CSM over a 6:5 SD game,they are doing the best they know how.
    Many players prefer the exotic BJ games-Spanish21,Super21,ect-because they have more excitement,and people like to play at happy tables,just like in craps.Advantage players have to accept the fact that they are a very small
    minority that the casino and general public doesn't have any desire to help.
    The vast majority of players,and the ones the casinos cater to don't care about penetration,don't care about number of shoes or anything else. They are there to have a nice social event and hope to get lucky,or not lose too much,and maybe get a free meal,or two. Many will justify dropping $50 by figuring the ten drinks they consumed would have cost them more.As long as there is a steady procession of these players,why would casinos give a hoot about players who auctually try to take the casinos money?
  • I recently read somewhere where Las Vegas casino gaming revenue was down 3.5%-5% last quarter...In addition, last year casinos revenue from non-gaming higher for the first time in Vegas history. Within the next ten years I believe every state will have competitive casinos with Las Vegas rules. In short, I don't believe blackjack's death is as near as reflected in above posts. Table minimums may go up for good rules, but a good game will, in my opinion, will be available. I hope I'm right.

    Best, Jim P.
  • Jim,
    I'm not sure how the first part of your post relates to your conclusions.What do the current slowdown in the Vegas market,expanded competetion,and the fact that casinos are bringing in more money from non-gambling sources have in common that you use them as a source for believing BJ will improve?

    As gamling has expanded,the BJ rules have gotten worse.To the point where some places make you pay a 10% ante every hand,just for playing.
    If casinos can convince folks to pay full price for their rooms,meals and shows,how will that improve BJ?
  • New places that pop up with casinos or places that are failing will maybe deal out some of the best blackjack games. Couple examples of places that deal out great games that are trying to compete with LV are Wendover and Mesquite the latter is the only place I have heard of that still deals out a DAS on SD.

    Indian Casino's are still relatively new. With them being allowed in a state it is only a matter of time before people become more lenient towards allowing non Indian casinos in the area. With the growth of the industry eventually there will be too many casinos with not enough customers, for that time period games will start to improve.

    I might be totally wrong, but just thought I would give you guys my thoughts on the subject
  • My experiance has been the opposite.New places that open seem to have terrible games,since the people who flock to them don't know any better.
    As Harrahs and MGM seem to be determined to be the market leaders in every jurisdiction,and they generally have some of the worst games,I think the future is not very bright for this game.
  • NYB...I believe people are coming to LV for entertainment and gambling locally more often than a few years ago. Personally I go to a local Redskin casino a couple times a week and visit LV once a month. I'm rated a $50 player and can stay at a half dozen houses in LV with full RFB. I do not feel that the LV Houses want to lose the green chip regulars to local casinos by strangling their games for once a year poppies. I do agree that SD and DD rules are getting worse, but really don't think they will tinker with their 6D shoe games. Of course, your a much higher rated player than I am and I respect your opinion because you play LV on a regular basis.

    I don't understand what you meant by making a player pay a 10% ante per hand when playing. I'm missing something, would you please inform me.

    Thanks and Take Care,

    Jim
  • [QUOTE=jimpenn]NYB...I believe people are coming to LV for entertainment and gambling locally more often than a few years ago. Personally I go to a local Redskin casino a couple times a week and visit LV once a month. I'm rated a $50 player and can stay at a half dozen houses in LV with full RFB. I do not feel that the LV Houses want to lose the green chip regulars to local casinos by strangling their games for once a year poppies. I do agree that SD and DD rules are getting worse, but really don't think they will tinker with their 6D shoe games. Of course, your a much higher rated player than I am and I respect your opinion because you play LV on a regular basis.

    I don't understand what you meant by making a player pay a 10% ante per hand when playing. I'm missing something, would you please inform me.

    Thanks and Take Care,


    Jim,
    Thanks for the compliments but I'm sorry to say that you are mistaken.
    I am not a higher rated player than you,and am offered only rooms when I go to Vegas. I do end up getting most of my meals comped,but I'm certainly not a $50 player.Mostly RED chips for this boy.Multiple Reds,but not steady Greens,thats for sure.

    As far as the ante goes,it seems there is a growing trend amongst some casinos to charge a 50cent ante per hand.Win or lose,the house gets the 50 cents.For a $5 bettor,thats 10% a hand.
    I've never played at one of these casinos,nor will I.
    Perhaps someone here has,and they can go into detail about the games.
  • Oklahoma casinos have the 50 cent per hand ante. I have played them, and will never play there again! Consider: 100 hands per hour X .50 = $50.00 per hour just for the priviledge of playing! Not for me.
  • Is it win,lose or push? Thats what I'm not sure of.Either way,you are getting reamed.
  • NYB said:
    Is it win,lose or push? Thats what I'm not sure of.Either way,you are getting reamed.


    I have played at one place that had antes it was 50 cents everyhand. The only time it wasn't 50 cents is when you have the choice of being the banker and taking the dealers cards it would be a 1$ ante or $2 depending on how much money was on the table.
  • NYB said:
    My experiance has been the opposite.New places that open seem to have terrible games,since the people who flock to them don't know any better.
    As Harrahs and MGM seem to be determined to be the market leaders in every jurisdiction,and they generally have some of the worst games,I think the future is not very bright for this game.


    I do agree about Harrah's, with the exception of Caesars $25 shoe game, they tend to have poor to terrible blackjack.
    I disagree concerning MGM as a whole. MGM, Monte Carlo, Mandalay Bay, Mirage and perhaps another of their properties have good shoe games with minimums between $10-$25.
    Mirage also has a decent double deck game.

    When Wynn opened it opened with the best double deck game in Vegas, and the same good shoe game that is found at the above MGM properties at a $15 minimum. Now they still have the good shoe game but the double deck went from $25 to $100 to the high limit where it might be $500 now.

    But even the casinos with some good games will prey on the unknowing and uncaring because they can. Walk into the MGM and the first several pits you walk by are full of 6/5 single deck, hit soft 17 3/2 shoes, and carnival games, but starting at the 4th or 5th pit, you find 2 pits with mostly shoe games having a house edge of only .26%. So the folks who walk into MGM and play the first thing they see play bad games. The people who walk in and do not search or perhaps can not walk the mile and a half (it's a big joint), walk out saying there are no good games there. Wynn and many other casinos take the same approach.

    Since I play a lot of blackjack in the really slow hours I sometimes see something worth comparing. Walk in during the busiest hours of the day and the bad game tables are loaded with players with can not lose their money fast enough, while the better tables are fairly crowded but the limits have been raised. Walk in when the place is nearly empty and you find the bad games nearly empty when compared to the good games and the limits on the good games have been lowered.

    ihate17

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