The Speed Count
  • Hey all!
    I use Fred Renzeys' Kiss III count and I'm very happy with it. Just heard about a book by Frank Scoblete entitled "Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution" in which Frank teaches "The Speed Count.''
    I haven't yet gotten the book so I was wondering what you all thought of the book and the speed count.
    Thanks and best of luck to all!
    Prog
  • I think you should buy the book and tell us what you think. Maybe you may even want to take the $800 course offered also. I don't think you going to get too many positive remarks within this forum, because too many people "raised old school' and have interests in many blackjack books, DVD's, software, etc. to recommend this new concept. I would like to hear Ed Thorpe's opinion on the system.
  • SImple evaluation: It works. But it is nowhere near as good as a real counting system like Hi-Lo or whatever. You can look up "OPP" which is the _same_ system, but available publicly (Arnold's web site) for free if you want to experiment with it... It's better than relying on pure BS, but not near a real system.
  • GT BJ works. It's a really simple system that takes a few factors into account,and helps you determine your bet.
    That said,I don't think its nearly as good as Renzis Kiss 111,perhaps not even as good as Kiss 1.But you can literally teach someone the system on a two hour plane or bus trip and get a novice involved in the world of advantage BJ.
    I don't see any hi-lo players switching to it,though.
  • thank you all for the info-think i'll stay happy with kiss III.
    Prog
  • The results claimed for Speed Count are grossly exaggerated to the point of false advertising.
  • NYB said:
    GT BJ works. It's a really simple system that takes a few factors into account,and helps you determine your bet.
    That said,I don't think its nearly as good as Renzis Kiss 111,perhaps not even as good as Kiss 1.But you can literally teach someone the system on a two hour plane or bus trip and get a novice involved in the world of advantage BJ.
    I don't see any hi-lo players switching to it,though.


    It has about 35% the SCORE of KISS I. It CANNOT be mastered in two hours in a bus. It is really a shame that people are making this claim as some gamblers will believe it. I believe that Basic Strategy is far better for the average player as the risk in Speed Count is too high. I also think it unfortunate that anyone that publishes accurate sims for these counts is assigned dishonest motivations. I have published 2,000 sims on the related OPP Count. The numbers are what they are and have nothing to do with any "interest" I have in "old school" books, DVDs or software.
  • QFIT said:
    It has about 35% the SCORE of KISS I. It CANNOT be mastered in two hours in a bus. It is really a shame that people are making this claim as some gamblers will believe it. I believe that Basic Strategy is far better for the average player as the risk in Speed Count is too high. I also think it unfortunate that anyone that publishes accurate sims for these counts is assigned dishonest motivations. I have published 2,000 sims on the related OPP Count. The numbers are what they are and have nothing to do with any "interest" I have in "old school" books, DVDs or software.



    While I don't disagree with your sims,I must say that I have taught several people the concept of OPP or Speed Count on the bus from NY to AC.What about its concept do you think can't be taught in twenty minutes to an average person.
  • NYB said:
    While I don't disagree with your sims,I must say that I have taught several people the concept of OPP or Speed Count on the bus from NY to AC.What about its concept do you think can't be taught in twenty minutes to an average person.


    I taught chess to a dancer at the Platinum Club once in 15 minutes. Does that mean that she should enter a cash tournament? There is a large difference between teaching a "concept" and teaching someone to use the concept successfully. In fact, the concept of OPP/Speed Count is more complex than KO Rookie. If you don't know Basic Strategy, it is ridiculous to claim that you can beat a casino with two hours training on the ride to the casino. If you do know BS, it is still ridiculous and it is easier to learn KO Rookie than Speed Cout since SC has a different BS.

    Even using my training software I tell people to practice for a month before setting foot in a casino. What bothers me is advertising that claims you can beat a casino with two hours training. Does anyone here actually believe this?
  • one other point Norm has made in the past about this that convinced me he was on the right track was this. The only way to beat a shoe game, and that is the most likely game a new player will jump on due to table mins, etc, is to spread your bets. Increasing your bet size increases the variance your bankroll has to withstand while you are playing. If you use hi-lo, and jump to a max bet at a TC of +1, you will beat the house long-term, but you are going to see some truly wild bankroll swings. For that reason, we ramp our bets more slowly, usually reaching a max bet around TC of +4 or so. OPP/GT are less accurate at recognizing your advantage, and you will be running your bet up at times when you have no advantage at all, at other times where you have a slight advantage, etc. What that does is make your bankroll swing wildly. Not exactly what one would want for a first-timer that was "taught on the train over to the casino." Since the min bet is likely $5 or $10, you are going to have to hit $100-$200 max bets to beat a shoe game playing every hand. How many beginners are prepared to do that, and also prepared to lose multiple big bets in a row?

    Bottom line is that while winning is important, how much variance you have to endure is a make-or-break point for new counters. The better the counting system, the lower the variance, so that you have big bets out when you have an advantage, and small bets out when you don't...
  • nothing worthwhile comes easy

    the hi lo with wongs indices are the way to go, but it sure does take a while to master
  • Edwardsjm said:
    nothing worthwhile comes easy

    the hi lo with wongs indices are the way to go, but it sure does take a while to master


    I play both,- hi lo and similar to speedcount or OPP systems. For those, which make not big spread (1-4) these systems is about equal. But to learn it in few hours - that is nonsence. Two weeks - maybe maybe...
    My OPP, is mix system from clasic speed count and Halves or Uston APC. And he is much stronger, than clasic speed count and maybe stronger than hi lo with small spread. And it is easy.......but not for novice.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!