Warped cards
  • I recently came across a casino that uses cards that are warped. One card before I sat down was bent really bad and a couple others edges were really messed up. Is their a techinique to taking adv of over used cards or do you just eye it?
  • Interesting: Was this a pitch game. Does the dealer have to peek to see if he has blackjack?
    If so, you can play the warps. There has to be a pattern, when a dealer is always peeking behind a 10 value or ace card, you get a pattern.

    If the cards were used on a pitch game and there had been a player bending certain value cards in certain ways, you might figure this out. You also might be accused of being the one bending or marking the cards and get arrested.

    If you are in a casino that does not change the cards in a pitch game often, you are in a sloppy casino and not only can take advantage of the cards but if you are sharp can find a ton of things to take advantage of.

    ihate17
  • It was a pitch game and the dealer had to check for blackjack. I don't know how to hole card, but one dealer was flashing when I first sat down. I never had seen a dealer so obvious to the point that I noticed. My eyes lit up and I think the dealer noticed and rest of time was much better at hiding hole card. They could arrest me even though the cards were already messed up before I sat down? If that is the case maybe I should not even bother with taking adv of the messed up cards even if it was the casino's fault.
  • It can be a fairly good game if you play a game where the dealer has to bend the cards to look for blackjack. It does cause warping, and the best time to take advantage of this is a couple of hours right before they change the cards so all the cards have a real nice bend to them by then. At this point most aces and 10 cards will have a slight convex bend to them when face down. Thats caused by hours of bending them upward to look for blackjack when they are the dealers up card. If they have a concave bend there's really no telling what card it is unless you noticed a severe bend on a particular card and made note of it. It can be advantageous in that you can generally tell if there is an ace or ten in the hole. Just don't be too obvious like hitting a hard eighteen with a dealer showing a 9 with a convex warp underneath, that will get you noticed quick. But it is a really big help with insurance bets.
  • Casino Verite has a warped card option that allows you to practice using warped card info. But this is an old option not in much use these days as nearly 100% of LV casinos have peeking devices.


    www.qfit.com
  • avs21 said:
    It was a pitch game and the dealer had to check for blackjack. I don't know how to hole card, but one dealer was flashing when I first sat down. I never had seen a dealer so obvious to the point that I noticed. My eyes lit up and I think the dealer noticed and rest of time was much better at hiding hole card. They could arrest me even though the cards were already messed up before I sat down? If that is the case maybe I should not even bother with taking adv of the messed up cards even if it was the casino's fault.


    Russo and Grosjean were arrested for card marking even though the cards were not marked! All I was saying that if they see you taking advantage of marks already on the cards, who is to stop them from saying that you were the one who marked them and the video has been taped over. Casinos do sometimes get pissed at advantage players and if they can find an excuse to bring gaming into it, gaming tends to take the casinos word, so you have a problem. Probably the case is dismissed but first you are stuck in lock up, have to hire an attorney and so on.
    Similar type of situation that scared the shit out of me. Early 80's, in the Stardust, I sit down at 2nd base in a pitch game. Right away I can see the dealer showing both his hole card and the next card out of the deck to the guy at first base. I play, using this information a few times and my brain wakes up and figuring that if I can see this easily, so can a casino employee if they are watching. I cash out and leave the casino. Now the dealer and first base, in my opinion, were obviously partners, but if they came to bust them, based upon the way I played a few hands, they would have to take me also. I hole card plenty but would never team up with a dealer and have never been accused yet by a casino of doing so.

    ihate17
  • Did you ever find out if they ended up getting busted?
  • Nope, never found out. I did go back the next day but I think it was during a different shift. It was a long time ago.
  • my take on all this has always been to hit the road if I see _anything_ untoward going on. I have on way rare occasions seen the dealer flash to first base in a way that could be interpreted as intentional. That's a felony. If you appear to be involved in any way, you will be digging for a while to get out of the mess, and it won't be cheap with an attorney, bail, etc. Ditto for warped/bent cards. Or if someone appears to be a dauber. Or anything else that could be considered illegal in the casino's eye...

    It isn't worth that hassle, IMHO. If the dealer is continually making payoff errors to one particular player, same deal for me. I don't want to be at the table when hell breaks loose. I had something like this happen a few months back. I won't give the details to avoid any potential problems when I go back, but what appeared to be an innocent request from the pit "your player's card has a data error, can we borrow your license a minute to re-setup your account? After about 5 minutes, guy got uneasy. Walked away. Within 30 seconds we had suits and security everywhere looking for him, as the dealer was escorted away by other security. The only thing I had noticed (I had only been at the table for 5-10 minutes) was that the guy on first base was making some _very_ strange playing decisions, once hitting a 19 when it turned out the dealer had a 20... I didn't notice any flashing, but clearly something was going on... Could have been that the dealer was just signaling his down card when he peeked (this place had the LED checkers, but it was totally unreliable and the pit had that table "peeking" the old-fashioned way...)

    I probably should have left sooner but the place was crowded and I was playing with family there and I guess I was too tired to think about what might be going on, until it was already too late. I could defend every playing decision I made at the table, but I would not want to have to do so after getting bailed out and going to trial...
  • I'd like to make something perfectly clear here. Warped cards with pitch games can be a bit trickier than with shoe games because you actually handle the cards. But if you're just using it to aid in insurance decisions and not making blatantly obvious moves as I described, and the count is at an advantage, I'm not going anywhere. As for shoe games there is a little more leeway as you never actually touch the cards. As for collusion with the dealer, unless you really are, or are a notorious advantage player that the casinos are looking to harrass, there is not going to be any arrest. Its really not in the best interest of the casino to give Joe Blow from Wichita Kansas a hard time thinking he's in collusion with a dealer that lives in say Las Vegas. The reprecussions of wrongful arrest is not worth the casinos time for your average player. Play a smart game and you're going to be just fine. Truth be told card counting is easier to detect than playing the warps if you don't do it foolishly. I do take chances but I don't burn bridges, so basically what I'm saying is, if you play smart, don't sweat it too much.
  • Bojack1 said:
    I'd like to make something perfectly clear here. Warped cards with pitch games can be a bit trickier than with shoe games because you actually handle the cards. But if you're just using it to aid in insurance decisions and not making blatantly obvious moves as I described, and the count is at an advantage, I'm not going anywhere. As for shoe games there is a little more leeway as you never actually touch the cards. As for collusion with the dealer, unless you really are, or are a notorious advantage player that the casinos are looking to harrass, there is not going to be any arrest. Its really not in the best interest of the casino to give Joe Blow from Wichita Kansas a hard time thinking he's in collusion with a dealer that lives in say Las Vegas. The reprecussions of wrongful arrest is not worth the casinos time for your average player. Play a smart game and you're going to be just fine. Truth be told card counting is easier to detect than playing the warps if you don't do it foolishly. I do take chances but I don't burn bridges, so basically what I'm saying is, if you play smart, don't sweat it too much.



    Actually pitch games are what I was talking about. At least 90% of my play has been SD/DD games, very infrequently do I venture into shoes unless it is possible to wong in/out... And when you get to touch the cards, even if it is only your right hand, you could be at risk. I once played at a DD game in Vegas where someone was / had marked aces and tens with their fingernail on the edge. It was eventually noticed, we had security everywhere, as the "eye" folks reviewed things in detail on the video... Nothing came of it so I assume that either the "marker" had left, or the video was inconclusive. But I do know two people that have been detained in similar fashion and I am certain they were not into "marking" at all although they did have an advantage play they were using and were well ahead when trouble started...

    almost forgot this one... a family member (not close family) was playing one afternoon after having been to the pool area. Apparently she used some sort of sunscreen or tanning oil or something that was still on her face, neck, etc... and it left little "reflective flecks" on the cards that someone noticed. Caused a heck of a problem as she was escorted to the back, gaming was called in, she produced the tanning / sunscreen stuff, and was eventually let go with the admonition (do not play any more hand-held games in this casino)...
  • The average life of a casino deck of cards is only an hour or two especially if it is on a pitch game with a single deck. If you are on a six deck shoe that uses 12 decks 6 decks on the shuffler 6 decks in the shoe than they usually change them once a day! If you come across a casino that has warped cards and it makes you feel uncomfortable you can ask for a deck change!
  • Not in Downtown Las Vegas. There, some casinos use the cards for several hours.My last trip to the Vagas Club,the ten of Spades had a huge crease in it.I played several hours and it ended up being the dealers hole card several times.It was obvious that several players were aware of it.Sadly,it never showed up accompanied by a dealers Ace up.
  • Thank you guys for the feedback

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