Locations for favorable playing conditions/rules
  • OK I have been to a number of places gambling lately. Here is the lowdown on some of them. This is based on memory since I did not take notes or anything:

    Biloxi MS: Played there in June. The Palace has $5 tables. I was not counting and after being up $200 early in the week, I gave it all back and broke even. That is when I decided to start counting again (KO). I had dabbled in Hi-Opt previously but did not enjoy playing with it. KO is so easy that 3 months later I can play it perfectly and count the cards with just a quick glance while tipping the waitress and maintaining basic conservation (so, where are you from, yada yada...). The more I play, the more I find I can chat with the dealer and do other stuff while counting.

    Vicksburg MS: 6-deck shoe, dealer stays on soft 17, DAS, resplitting of Aces. This was the best game I found anywhere. I don't think they offered Surrender.

    Tunica MS: Here I tried some of the 1 and 2 deck games and thought they were awful. The 6-deck game was similar to Vegas, dealer MUST hit soft 17 (LOL as if that was bad for the dealer), DAS, resplit aces, no surrender.

    Shreveport, LA: Same as Vicksburg. Highly recommended.

    Las Vegas: Just got back. I went around to several hotels to see the game they offered. All of the posh ones seemed to offer crummy games. Autoshufflers, $100 min bet, 8-deck games were common. Don't bother with the Mirage, Treasure Island, Wynn, Venetian, or Caesar's Palace.

    The best games I found were 6-deck shoes at the Hilton and Stratosphere. The Hilton game had surrender (a rarity) and $10 minimums. Strat had several $5 tables, even on a Friday night. Both keep the drinks coming. Other than that, I think both offered the standard shoe game, same as Tunica.

    I think we need to get a listing going of places where the dealer stays on Soft 17. I think it was the Horseshoe in Shreveport and possibly Ameristar in Vicksburg (1st one off the interstate). Sorry, I will keep better track of these in the future.

    I am going to Cincinnati for business in a couple of weeks. I would appreciate if anyone can give me the lowdown on those gambling boats, or whatever it is they offer in Indiana. I think it is water-based and quite close to Cinci. I do not want to get stuck on a boat for several hours with an unfavorable game.

    Keeping a list of the most favorable shoe games can save us all time, which is always limited, when playing at a casino while visiting or just passing through town. I wasted a lot of time in Tunica trying to find a game as good as the one offered in Vicksburg!
  • You might want to look into getting CBJN at Bj21.com They have all the table condtions at every casino in the US and Canada
  • Recently returned from staying and playing a little at the Hilton. I don't recall a 6D game where dealer stands on soft 17. There is one in the H/L Room.
  • countfast said:
    Recently returned from staying and playing a little at the Hilton. I don't recall a 6D game where dealer stands on soft 17. There is one in the H/L Room.


    I said Hilton LV was like Tunica, dealer hits on soft 17 in the 6D game.

    What is the H/L room?
  • All the casinos in Biloxi have dealer stands on 17.
  • rdorange said:
    All the casinos in Biloxi have dealer stands on 17.


    I haven't been there since Katrina, but a few friends have, and they reported that most games they found were H17 rather than S17.
  • Several of the casinos in Vegas will have both S17 and H17 tables in different pits. You may be able to find a S17 table just a few feet away if you keep looking. I believe most of the south strip casinos still have late surrender as well. The penetration varies around 4/6 to 4.5/6 but in some cases a 4/6 game can be more profitable than a deeper cut one:

    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1919
    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1920
    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2140

    And what’s so crummy about autoshufflers? They speed up the game quite a bit, which will increase your hourly win rate. Back when certain casinos used to give out “Blackjack pays 2:1 for an hour” coupons many smart players would flock to the ASM tables to maximize their profit.

    I didn’t realize that many casinos have 8-deckers now. That’s pretty disappointing. Still, I play mostly Vegas and Southern California and there are plenty of good games out there. I agree with AVS21 that CBJN is a good investment. You don’t want to spend your whole trip looking for good games. CBJN will give you a good idea of where to look before you get there.

    -Sonny-
  • I don't mind auto shufflers, either, since I don't use shuffle tracking. Although,
    CSM's are to be avoided in every case. I believe some people still fail to mention the difference while posting on this forum.
  • When I said auto-shufflers I was probably referring to what you call a CSM, I am just not familiar with that terminology. The auto-shuffler where they keep switching out a six deck shoe is fine. The black machine that just spits out cards---AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!!!
  • stainless steel rat said:
    I haven't been there since Katrina, but a few friends have, and they reported that most games they found were H17 rather than S17.


    Maybe they tightened up after Katrina to increase profits.
  • Sonny said:
    Several of the casinos in Vegas will have both S17 and H17 tables in different pits. You may be able to find a S17 table just a few feet away if you keep looking. I believe most of the south strip casinos still have late surrender as well. The penetration varies around 4/6 to 4.5/6 but in some cases a 4/6 game can be more profitable than a deeper cut one:

    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1919
    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1920
    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2140

    And what’s so crummy about autoshufflers? They speed up the game quite a bit, which will increase your hourly win rate. Back when certain casinos used to give out “Blackjack pays 2:1 for an hour” coupons many smart players would flock to the ASM tables to maximize their profit.

    I didn’t realize that many casinos have 8-deckers now. That’s pretty disappointing. Still, I play mostly Vegas and Southern California and there are plenty of good games out there. I agree with AVS21 that CBJN is a good investment. You don’t want to spend your whole trip looking for good games. CBJN will give you a good idea of where to look before you get there.

    -Sonny-


    I read that as a "continuous shufling machine" which is unplayable. An automatic shuffler is great except that it stymies shuffle-tracking pretty well except for those rare few that have analyzed the machines to understand what goes on inside and exploit that.
  • stainless steel rat said:
    I haven't been there since Katrina, but a few friends have, and they reported that most games they found were H17 rather than S17.


    There are very few H17 games. Just about every game is S17.
    I've been going just about every week or two since Katrina.
  • rdorange said:
    There are very few H17 games. Just about every game is S17.
    I've been going just about every week or two since Katrina.


    that's a change. Previously at places like the Beau, most shoe games had migrated to H17, although you could find S17 games in a couple of back pits... I had expected the games to erode to at least H17 since the majority of the casinos are still down...
  • Since Katrina I have been to these casinos and they all have table games including BJ...
    Isle of Capri, The Grand, Beau Rivage, IP, Boomtown, The Palace and Island View.

    The Treasure Bay Casino should have their table games open by sometime in October.

    I do not play the shoe games, so I don't watch the playing conditions on them that close. But, Most all of the ones I've seen are all S17. H17 is the exception!
  • The only two erosions that I have seen recently were at the Grand and at the Isle of Capri.

    The Grand has (only) one two deck pitch game and they gave it a $100 min most of the time and is only in the HL room. You can occasionally find it at $50 min, but not often. I don't play that because I can get the same game elsewere for 1/2 the min ($25).

    The Isle recently eroded their two deck pitch game (on the regular casino floor) by making it double down on 10 and 11 only. The two deck pitch game in the HL room is unchanged. This forces the higher betters (that are willing to pay more for a better game) into the HL limit room and weeds out the lower betters. The HL min is usually $50, but if the table is not crowded, and you ask nice they will drop the min to $25.
  • Knox said:


    I am going to Cincinnati for business in a couple of weeks. I would appreciate if anyone can give me the lowdown on those gambling boats, or whatever it is they offer in Indiana. I think it is water-based and quite close to Cinci. I do not want to get stuck on a boat for several hours with an unfavorable game.

    Keeping a list of the most favorable shoe games can save us all time, which is always limited, when playing at a casino while visiting or just passing through town. I wasted a lot of time in Tunica trying to find a game as good as the one offered in Vicksburg!

    of the three closest casinos to Cincy you will find Argosy the best for six deck blackjack. play on the first floor it has all six deck games. the non-smoking area one floor down is eight deck. the rules are s17 das nrsa. Argosy does not offer late surrender. no $5 tables until 3:30am up til about 10:00am . you may get some one on one around 4:00am .
    Grand Victoria has all eight deck games except one table is six deck. Grand Victoria rules are s17 das nrsa lsr $5 & $10 tables. they have a bunch of csm tables. they had one double deck game with bad penetration $25 min
    Belterra the farthest out from Cincy has csm's and eight deck games. mostly $10, $15 and $25 tables s17 das nrsa and as i recall they did not have late surrender. you might get $5 tables after 1:00am. they had one double deck game $25 min and bad penetration.

    best regards,
    mr fr0g
  • Thanks Froggy! I really like the S17 DAS conditions! I'll be there next week Tuesday, then I'll decide how much more to play on Wed & Thur before coming home Thurs. My wife does not know my schedule, so I can do whatever I like. Especially since I am working at home the next week! How long ago did you play those places, by the way?

    Belterra is my first stop on the way up from Tennessee. I may or may not hit the other places depending on what I find there.

    Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes.
  • Boomtown in verdi nevada has the most favorable rules that I have seen for blackjack. Single deck game double on any first two cards dealer hits soft 17 like usual. House edge .18%. Blackjack pays 3 to 2 not 6 to 5! But becareful because I got tossed from their for counting they said that I couldn't play blackjack their anymore. minimum bet $3-$10 depending upon what table you are at.
  • learningtocount said:
    Boomtown in verdi nevada has the most favorable rules that I have seen for blackjack.


    I'll agree with you on that. I was comped a room there a couple weeks ago and played in hour shifts during my stay. I was being "observed" closely while playing but wasn't spreading enough to draw attention to myself. Good game though.
  • Knox said:
    Thanks Froggy! I really like the S17 DAS conditions! I'll be there next week Tuesday, then I'll decide how much more to play on Wed & Thur before coming home Thurs. My wife does not know my schedule, so I can do whatever I like. Especially since I am working at home the next week! How long ago did you play those places, by the way?

    Belterra is my first stop on the way up from Tennessee. I may or may not hit the other places depending on what I find there.

    Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes.

    i've played those casinos on and off for almost two years. i get up Cincy way fairly frequently. i was there only a few weeks ago.
    Belterra unfortunately is your worst option. all eight decks (every so often they may have one six deck that has the three card poker tied to it).
    Grand Victoria is the next worst. all eight decks except one six deck with the three card poker tied to it.
    Argosy would be your best option. they have high limits during the day and evening but between 3:30am and 10:00am you can find a number of six deck games at the $5 limit.
    it really should be just as easy for you to go to Argosy as opposed to the others if you are comming from Tennessee. from I-75 just take i-275 west then take the first exit when you hit Indiana. you'll be at Argosy shortly.
    good luck, let us know how it turns out.

    best regards,
    mr fr0g
  • Belterra is the closest on my way up. The odd hours you mention will not be convenient for me to find a 6-deck $5 game. If I don't like Belterra there is a road that takes me right up to other places. I want to check out all three since things can change. Again, thanks for the info!

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