countfast said:Good to see that everyone has opinions and personal success stories. I've been reading SSR's and Bojack's comments since 2003 and take them for a grain of salt. I've been around a few times and possess the drive, motivation, patience, and knowledge to achieve goals. My past includes starting, building and selling large three companies, in addition to being an Aide to the past Senator John Heinz when he was on the James Commission during the S&L scandal.
I have a question for you and Bojack. Why, if card counting systems could win , are there so many new books on card counting? It's been over 40 years since Thorpe started the ball rolling and how many new systems can there be? I know the game changed and how Wong, Snyder,etc. testified for the casinos about bogus systems during the Atlantic City case on card counting. I think they used their real names during the case. I even think Rubin has a say at the trial. Hell, Snyder was a mail carrier when he started selling bogus gaming systems (on the side) in California. Aside from both of your forum success stories, how many documented wins have the both of you had in the arena? Hell, either one of you could be Renzy,etc. helping promote another one of his never ending new books.
countfast said:No sense telling the truth in this or any forum because they are all run by the snake oil salesmen who publish books and software.
countfast said:I have a question for you and Bojack. Why, if card counting systems could win, are there so many new books on card counting?
countfast said:Hell, Snyder was a mail carrier when he started selling bogus gaming systems (on the side) in California.
countfast said:The game today can't be beat. I do believe you can break even with comps...
countfast said:Like one poster said attempting to achieve a positive count is an 8D game is almost impossible today.
countfast said:Recently I was wonging at a local casino and backcounted 8 tables before I found a count worth entering.
Sonny said:Were you counting the whole shoe or were you abandoning the "hopeless" shoes after counting the first two decks? What is your optimal departure point? Optimal entry point? Were you counting two tables at once like most skilled counters? Were you backcounting full tables as well (to take advantage of Wong’s backline strategy)? I have a feeling you may not have been trying as hard as you could have been...but don’t try to blame your failure on the system. The system works just fine for the rest of us.
-Sonny-
Knox said:Sonny, I think you mean well but I wonder about your comments. It is hard to pick up on the tone from this type of communication, but it seems condescending. Sorry if I am wrong.
About those rating cards and getting comps. I signed up for one at the Hilton as part of my "act". I figured a counter would never sign up for one of those, so it could be part of my cover. Also starting off the 6D show with a medium-sized bet, then letting it ride until I lost seemed to be a good cover play. Once it loses, I would go down to the $10 minimum unless the count was really good, which is doubtful that early in the deck. I would appreciate the lowdown on rating cards, I figure they are just a way to track players, and are only useful to big losers earning comps.
With regard to exit stategies, I think you need to stick it out for at least 2 decks in a 6D shoe, because the count can change quickly. Early exit does not make sense to me unless the count is just horrid. I use KO but I start at zero so I can avoid most negative counts.
countfast said:Sonny, you're no Grifter, SSR or Bojack...you just think you are. You get your rocks off in a forum, not on the green.
countfast said:Look how Bogata has taken over AC with their favorable games. They are one of the only couple of casinos offering S17 for $10 games.
Knox said:Sonny, I think you mean well but I wonder about your comments. It is hard to pick up on the tone from this type of communication, but it seems condescending.
countfast said:Sonny, you're no Grifter, SSR or Bojack...you just think you are. You get your rocks off in a forum, not on the green.
Andee said:When did you become a believer in SSR and Bojack. I mean you already stated you respected grifter, and I'm sure thats because back when you were Alex he constantly put you in your place. But to put the others in with Grifter you must have had a change of heart. Does that mean you are going to change your name again too. I suggest maybe Bill Gates, I know its already taken but with that incredible resume of yours I'm sure he would be honored to share a name with the likes of you.
And I guess Sonny is on your tantrum list now because he categorically beat the hell out of yours-and Alex's disillusioned ideas on blackjack and some of its key players.
And what of that ridiculous rant about you're so called professional life. I'd be very surprised that someone of your alleged stature would get rattled that easily by just another poster on a message board. I know the people I work for wouldn't, and you know why, they're real! Stop with all the crap Alex/countfast, and come back as someone who believes that playing blackjack is not a lost cause. That way you might make more friends while posting on a board ABOUT BLACKJACK!
AlexD30 said:First, I find it amazing that someone like yourself that would resort to libel, malicious libel, false allegations, nonsensical
references calls himself intelligent and capable playing BJ for profit.
AlexD30 said:My God man, read your post! You sound like a raving lunatic!
Sonny said:It seems hypocritical to claim that all blackjack games are unbeatable yet refuse to look for any good ones, and refuse to learn more powerful techniques designed to beat them. He either needs to learn a few advanced techniques (zone tracking, cutoff tracking, cutting/steering, front loading, side bets, backline strategy, team play, sequencing, couponomy, comp counting, etc.)
Knox said:Can you direct me some sources for information on the topics you mentioned?
Knox said:Sonny: that is a lot of info. What order would you recommend adding these additional "modules" to my arsenal? I can play error-free KO now, but I am not quite ready to bankroll $100 bets. I want to slowly build a bankroll with $50 max bets. I clobbered the LV Hilton for several hunderd $ last week but I had a bad 8-deck session over at the Venetian that ruined it. I lost two $100 bets with the count in the +30s (I start KO at zero). On the last one, I had an 11 but no more $ to double! So the guy next to me pulls out $100, an obvious scavenge attempt. We both lost, but I guess I was lucky I didn't have the extra $100!! LOL.
Knox said:Sonny: that is a lot of info. What order would you recommend adding these additional "modules" to my arsenal?
jimpenn said:Sonny, that was great information you gave Knox concerning the fellow who purchased his double. Is there any hand interactions that wouldn't hurt the player who run out of money?
Knox said:Surely only a moron would fund half of an 8-split against a 10?
Sonny said:If youre going to play shoe games, the next step will be to learn about cutoff tracking which is a simplified version of shuffle tracking. The two links I gave are articles that I wrote that will give you a basic understanding of how it works as well as some of the math behind it. There is also a link in the Shuffle Tracking section to an article I wrote about recognizing trackable shuffles. Those will give you most of what you need to know to start scouting actual casinos.
-Sonny-
Renzey said:I also get in on quite a few doubles with 11 against a 10 or Ace. 11 against an Ace is generally not a proper double, but it still wins 53% of the time in a six deck game.
learningtocount said:If you play blackjack with a payout of 6-5 it is not a profitable game no matter how good the rest of the rules are!!
Knox said:I don't care for the 6:5 game either. However, I think the "cost" of a 6:5 game is 60% * the penalty for even money of 2.32%, or about 1.4%. You can construct a basic strategy game that will advantage the player .15% fairly easily. Sometimes the rules may be even more favorable, such as double on any number of cards. Either way, you can gain about 2% expectation using KO preferred and a 1-10 spread. So as you can see 2%-1.4%+0.15%=0.75% advantage. I figure anything between 0.50% and 1% is playable.
That assumes 65% penetration and no wonging. Each card less than 65% pen costs you $, so that is a critical variable. When there are a lot of players at a single-deck game, the dealer is likely to deal a preset number of hands, regardless of the number of cards dealt. This number will probably be conservative, so the resulting pen often may barely exceed 50%.
If you can get some head-up play, you are more likely to get the 65% pen and the game becomes playable. It may even be more fun because you can use more index plays to deviate from basic strat. But you will not be able to wong in and out.
It's pretty easy to find a six-deck game with 0.50% expected return using only a 1-5 spread. Then you can wong out to the bathroom 2-3 decks into an unfavorable count and have them hold your spot, timing it to return at the start of the next shoe. I have had pretty good luck using this tactic, but it is a slow process that still has ups and downs.
stainless steel rat said:I'd like to see a game where a 1:5 spread (6 deck) gets you a 1/2 percent EV. If you can give me the rules you are talking about and I can run a CVCX sim. But I really doubt that 1:5 will cut it in a shoe assuming reasonable penetration (1.5 decks cut off, 1 deck in a _really_ good game). General wisdom suggests at least a 1:12 spread for 6 deck, with a 1:20 being better...
Knox said:How about 6-deck, 75% penetration, S17, rsa, lsr, DAS, double any two cards? You are about 0.36% disadvantage without counting. With KO, the 1-5 spread would yield 80-90 basis points gain in play.
I am all for huge spreads, if you can get away with them and your bankroll supports it.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!