Warning 6-5 blackjack is not profitable!!!
  • The game 6-5 blackjack is not a profitable game even though you can double down on any two cards and double after a split. The game has the worse house odds in blackjack over 1% with perfect play!!! The best counters have an edge of .5% on favorable games that pay the full amount for blackjack 3 to 2. The best counters on a 6-5 game would never get an edge.
    If you get a $100 blackjack you are sacrficing $30 on your blackjack payout which is devistating to your results. You would be better of in game that pays 3 to 2 and restricts you to doubling on 10-11 only.
  • learningtocount said:
    The game 6-5 blackjack is not a profitable game even though you can double down on any two cards and double after a split. The game has the worse house odds in blackjack over 1% with perfect play!!! The best counters have an edge of .5% on favorable games that pay the full amount for blackjack 3 to 2. The best counters on a 6-5 game would never get an edge.
    If you get a $100 blackjack you are sacrficing $30 on your blackjack payout which is devistating to your results. You would be better of in game that pays 3 to 2 and restricts you to doubling on 10-11 only.


    Sorry, but that is wrong. Any game can be beat assuming you can get a bigger spread down. 6:5 is easily beatable with the right spread. But it takes the right spread. 1:2 or 1:4 is not going to cut it...
  • Most of the card counters advantage when he is playing comes from the 3 to 2 pay of when the payoff is reduced to 6 to 5 payoff it doesn't matter if you spread from the table minimum $5 to the table maximum $2,000 you will not win in the long run. The cost of busting before the dealer is more than you will be able to make up with double down and spliting pairs.
    Although in 6 to 5 blackjack an even money payoff with an ace up is almost always mathimatically profitable.
  • learningtocount said:
    Most of the card counters advantage when he is playing comes from the 3 to 2 pay of when the payoff is reduced to 6 to 5 payoff it doesn't matter if you spread from the table minimum $5 to the table maximum $2,000 you will not win in the long run. The cost of busting before the dealer is more than you will be able to make up with double down and spliting pairs.
    Although in 6 to 5 blackjack an even money payoff with an ace up is almost always mathimatically profitable.


    I agree with that last part although I could not tell you the exact impact of 6:5 on even money/insurance plays.

    You need to do some more research, I agree with stainless that 6:5, while costing the player 1.4%, can be offset with favorable rules and a reasonable betting spread. The reason is that a system like KO preferred can gain back about 2% of that when spreading 1-10, and that is not even a high playing efficiency system, therefore it is not the best system for playing against SD games.

    As I stated in the other thread, it is pretty easy to construct a SD 3:2 game that will return a 0.15% advantage to the player without counting.

    The main problem I had with the SD game was weak penetration, not much more than 50%. If you can't get 65% pen (2/3 of the deck), I would avoid that SD game.

    Count: I think you bring up good issues but they are not backed by any research or facts. It would be more helpful to you and the rest of us if you can base your statements on sound mathematical analysis rather than "hunches".
  • Beating 6/5 with a large spread for single deck can be done, but when you break down your EV, you are much better off playing against a shoe with OK rules. 6/5 is, in my opinion, only a good game when one is playing against a flasher. Beatable does not mean good, it just means beatable.

    ihate17
  • 5-2,000$ on SD 6:5 you would have nice size edge. 1-24 spread with 50% pen H17 rules around a 1% edge over casino using the Zen count. Still not worth your time.
  • You play a $100 a hand when the count is in your favor you win 49 hands and lose 51 hand and get 7 blackjacks. A double counts as 2 bets and spliting pairs counts as many bets as I have hands so gains from spliting and doubling are included. You have a lose of $60 in this scenario. Imagine what your loss would be with a negative count.


    p.s. Even money is usually not offered in 6 to 5 blackjack because doing so does not work out for the casino because they would be paying 5 to 1 on that insurnance bet. If the casino does offer even money on a 6 to 5 game they are doing it to have better relations with the players because a lot of players get angry if they don't get even money and push on a blackjack!!! It wouldn't cost the casino that much to offer even money on 6 to 5 blackjack only on 1 in 16 blackjacks will you be offered even money. It will only effect one hand in 320 to 336 hands!!! Thats how often you will have a blackjack and the dealer will show an ace. Of the times you get to take even money the dealer will have blackjack only a fraction of the time. The net effect is the would payout one more unit in a 1,000!!! That is a small price for the casino to pay to jip you on 15 out of 16 blackjacks!!!
  • learningtocount said:
    ... The best counters on a 6-5 game would never get an edge...


    Yes, you can get a big edge on 6:5 and even on SF21 but not by using the Hi-Lo or basic strategy. Matter of fact none of the known counting system will work in 6:5 or SF21. If you try to play blackjack using any of the popular counting systems with basic strategy you will lose in those games. As far as I can say on this open forum the two games (6:5 and SF21) are NOT to be considered being blackjack games. They are not! We are talking a totally different concept here. The 6:5 rule is a big handicap and you as a player have to handicap the dealer also by creating more pushes instead the normal proportion that exist in regular 3:2 game.

    Don't argue this one with me because I know what I'm talking about. Get the insurance correctly and you have a great money making game for yourself.

    There are hundredths of those game all over Vegas and Reno. You just have to know what to look for and grab it.
    This game will be around for long time so you better learn how to beat it because the casinos are to monitoring these game as they do with the regular 3:2 game. The assumption is that no serious player/card counter in his right mind will ever consider playing this game.
  • Alex:

    that is mostly bullcrap. Why do you think superfun21 is just about gone from the casino floor? Because counters have simply burned 'em to the ground on those games... SF21 is not worth learning since seeing it is becoming rarer and rarer...

    As far as 6:5 crapjack goes, you do _not_ need a special count to beat the game. There are counting systems better than hi-lo for single-deck. HO2 is a good example. But it is not needed to beat the game. The problem is that the 6:5 simply reduces the SD player edge significantly, but doesn't eliminate it. The rest depends on how big a spread one can get down without getting tossed out. And casinos _do_ watch their 6:5 tables, whether you realize it or not...
  • stainless steel rat said:
    Alex:

    that is mostly bullcrap. Why do you think superfun21 is just about gone from the casino floor? Because counters have simply burned 'em to the ground on those games... SF21 is not worth learning since seeing it is becoming rarer and rarer...

    As far as 6:5 crapjack goes, you do _not_ need a special count to beat the game. There are counting systems better than hi-lo for single-deck. HO2 is a good example. But it is not needed to beat the game. The problem is that the 6:5 simply reduces the SD player edge significantly, but doesn't eliminate it. The rest depends on how big a spread one can get down without getting tossed out. And casinos _do_ watch their 6:5 tables, whether you realize it or not...

    It depends on how much you are taking from them. A good counter can play at a downtown or on the Strip single deck or 6:5 and average at least 1 unit an hour, which is $25 if playing green. That's a pretty nice wage. Play 4 hours downtown and 4 hour the Strip every day and on average in the long run you will have $200 per day or $6,000 per month.

    The casino figures that at 6:5 some time you will crack (as some have around here) and lose it all back. But you still can make money even in the 6:5 game.
  • if you go downtown and play a "green unit" and spread as required to beat the 6:5 game, you will have lots of bruises on your a** where you get kicked out of every place you play. You don't think they will notice a 200-300-400 dollar bet when you started at $25??? And you are not going to beat the game with a 1-2 or 1-4 spread... so... ??


    You might possibly get a pass at the MGM a few times doing that, but it won't be long before they do a skills check on video and are waiting for your next appearance, and you add to your bruise collection.

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