True count a miss understood concept!!!
  • While you might be able to count cards you probably do not understand the concept of true count!!! This is why the casinos have introduced 6 deck shoes!!! On a 6 deck shoe 95% of the time the true count is in -2 to 2 range!
    When a card counter is counting at plus 8 if he has only gone through one deck is only 1.6. On the plus side if the count is negative 5 and you have only gone through about one deck your true count is only negative 1!!! On a six deck shoe because the dealer usually cuts off 2 decks you are divivding the count by at least 2 and usually more two find the true count!!!

    If you are playing on a single deck game the true count has the capabilty of getting much higher!!! Say that you are playing with 4 players and they use a total of 13 cards!!! The count that you get is at plus 3 but the true count is actually plus 4!!! 3\.75 is 4 why is the true count higher than the actually count the reason is that you divided by a number less than 1 but more than 0 and when you do that your number goes up. When you divid by more than 1 your number goes down. To have blackjack be a dead even gamle you need a true count of plus 1 that is hard to do on a shoe but really easy on a single deck!!! To have a money making gamble you need plus 2 or better again really easy on single deck but not on a shoe.

    p.s. I'm assuming double on 10 and 11 only blackjack pays 3 to 2 for single deck games true count of plus 2 profitable. Shoe games allow double on any two cards true count of plus one profitable!!!
  • I do not see the purpose or point of this post.

    (1) not all counters use a balanced count. KO is unbalanced and there is no "true count" associated with it;

    (2) any card counter worth his salt knows what true count is all about if he is using a balanced counting system like hi-lo. Every counter knows that the count is less volatile in shoes than in SD/DD games. But every counter also knows that shoes can certainly be beaten by counters. MIT certainly proved that publicly...
  • What is the k.o. count? I use the hi-low count and have never heard of k.o.
    What I'm trying to imply is a lot of counters don't realize where there are in the count with multiple decks especially when the discards are hidden! Even when they are in plan view it is difficult to estimate how many decks are there to within a quarter of a deck!!!
  • learningtocount said:
    What is the k.o. count? I use the hi-low count and have never heard of k.o.
    What I'm trying to imply is a lot of counters don't realize where there are in the count with multiple decks especially when the discards are hidden! Even when they are in plan view it is difficult to estimate how many decks are there to within a quarter of a deck!!!


    KO (and others like zen, etc) are unbalanced, in that the low cards and high cards don't sum to zero. Look at Arnold Snyder's red-7 count as one easy to follow example. 2-6 count +1, 10-A count -1, but red 7's also count +1. If you add those up, you get a +2 count when counting down a single deck. Or +12 when counting down a 6 deck shoe. Other unbalanced counts have the same type of tag imbalance. You then use the running count for betting and playing decisions, but you start it off at a negative initial running count, and when it reaches the pivot point (usually at a running count of zero) you know you have an advantage. In a shoe, a TC of +2 is generally a player advantage. So with an unbalanced count, you wait until the running count reached the pivot point, and then you increase your bet (you can find "rookie KO or Rookie Knock-Out" count explanations available for free on the web for more details).

    As far as your discard estimation, if you can't do that you can't use a balanced count like hi-lo. Discard estimation is part of the system and accuracy is essential. Although in a shoe _nobody_ uses 1/4 deck discard estimation resolution. Everyone I know uses at most 1/2 deck resolution and most use 1 deck accuracy in shoes. In DD I use 1/2 decks for the first deck and then switch to 1/4 deck resolution for the last deck. For SD I use 1/4 deck all the time.

    But if you find it impossible to do discard estimation, using a balanced count is hopeless. There you should switch to an unbalanced count like KO that needs no remaining deck estimation nor does it require a true-count conversion.
  • I have never came across this in my playing career. Could you tell me where you played that the discards were not visible.

    Thanks, JP

    P.S. Has any AP played against hidden discards? I guess it exists somewhere, but I have never seen it.

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