golfnut101 said:so then, if an American has no rights, and I have the same as an American being Canadian, doesnt that still mean I have no rights ????That is still good to know, NYB, much appreciated. It seems that they can do as they please in their casinos.
Andee said:Yes you still have the same legal rights in Indian casinos as you do in the state that the casino is in. Although their casino policies can be whatever they choose, they cannot change or overule their state laws. For example they must adhere to the states drinking age, and hours that alcohol can be served. They cannot arrest you unless you break a state or federal law, they cannot make laws, but like any other casino outside of NJ, they can kick you out if they want, for whatever reason they want as long as it is not based on bias.(Meaning race, color, creed, or any other social profiling) And if you have been read a tresspass act, you than can be arrested if you come back. Although it doesn't mean they can't break the law by roughing you up a little, but with the lawsuits that have happened recently thats pretty much a thing of the past. I believe all this to be completely true as I got this info from one of the lawyers I work for. Not only has he been practicing law for over 20 years, he's a pretty fair card counter as well.
NYB said:My understanding is that any events that occur in Indian Casinos are tried in Indian court,which is very different than US civil courts.No awards for pain and suffering,for example.
ihate17 said:Andee's lawyer answered the question from the point of view of what happens if we break the law. I found that surprising so I asked my questions. The reason I found it surprising is that he stated that he was a 20 year cardcounter?? As a cardcounter he should have been looking at it from the complete other side; what happens when the employees of the Indian Casino break the law?
As NYB said, you are looking at tribal court, which just might be highly biased if you are suing said tribe. Now for criminal charges there might be something in the state agreement with the tribe or there might not be.
As someone who was once slightly brutalized by Harrah's security in my room (no cameras there), and also play quite a bit at Indian casinos, the subject is something I do give some thought too.
Though gaming in Nevada choses to be ineffective, they exist so at times they might be effective but Nevada does have a system of appeals and courts, where a wronged party at least has a chance.
Being most familar with California, the state effectively has absolutely no system, no one is watching the barn and the state courts will point you in the direction of the tribal court and shruff their shoulders. The good news is that those running the casinos for the tribes do regulate themselves. They want to appear as good neighbors, fear negative press and many are the California equivalent of the locals casino. They hire so many locals that if you live in the town you perhaps have casino employees on your block, and see them at the market and PTA, This is all good, but there is nothing for the person entering the Indian casino in California to fall back on if he for instance, did get beaten by casino security, while there is in Nevada.
Remember casino security, Nevada or Tribal land, are not police, do not have police powers and are simply private citizens. When someone is detained in a casino, they are being held till gaming or metro arrive and being held is considered a citizen's arrest.
ihate17
Andee said:
What it comes down to is if you take your backoff like your supposed to, quietly, nothing will happen in most cases. There is not going to be any one way trips to the desert or even broken bones. In the rare case of something severe happening a good lawyer should be able to make enough waves that it will offer you a positive EV for an ass beating.
ihate17 said:It was Vegas, it was the home of the evil empire itself. They had a weak dealer, I could see his hole card about 90% of the time and I stayed too long. I was approached by a suit and two goons. I was read the tresspass act, had my family cursed and told if he could he would kick my @#@%ing ass in front of the whole casino. I replied, yes sir, I will pack my bags and leave. They went with me to my room, cursing me loudly while in public areas like they were praying that I would react, so I smiled and said hello to everyone we passed. Once in my room this big goon pinned me up against the wall while the other faked a punch at me and then they let me pack. They then cursed me all the way to the cage but let me cash my chips and cursed me to the curb. I took my 86ing with a smile,polietly and completely burning up inside. Taking a backoff or tresspass like you are supposed to means you do nothing to give them a reason to call the police, and that is all it means. What you said is correct often but is also naive. Have enough of these and you will learn, hopefully not the hard way.
ihate17
NYB said:There was a rather infamous case in Conn. a few years ago. Elderly man was struck by an car that a valet had left in gear.
He was pinned between two cars and lost one leg. Unable to sue in regular court,he went to tribal court where they ruled he had suffered no loss of income since he was retired and offered to pick up his out of pocket medical expenses. Had this happened in AC,the man would own the casino.
ihate17 said:It was Vegas, it was the home of the evil empire itself. They had a weak dealer, I could see his hole card about 90% of the time and I stayed too long. I was approached by a suit and two goons. I was read the tresspass act, had my family cursed and told if he could he would kick my @#@%ing ass in front of the whole casino. I replied, yes sir, I will pack my bags and leave. They went with me to my room, cursing me loudly while in public areas like they were praying that I would react, so I smiled and said hello to everyone we passed. Once in my room this big goon pinned me up against the wall while the other faked a punch at me and then they let me pack. They then cursed me all the way to the cage but let me cash my chips and cursed me to the curb. I took my 86ing with a smile,polietly and completely burning up inside. Taking a backoff or tresspass like you are supposed to means you do nothing to give them a reason to call the police, and that is all it means. What you said is correct often but is also naive. Have enough of these and you will learn, hopefully not the hard way.
ihate17
LVHCM said:What year was this? You may or may not have done a few things wrong.
ihate17 said:Not long ago.
NYB said:Andee,
Why would they even give you the time of day.You and your attorneys are not even permitted to appear in their courts.Do you really think the Conn. casino operators,who made their bones running Sun City in SA give a flying hoot about you giving them bad publicity?Lets see,you had a world-wide movement to boycott SA and entertainers being blacklisted for playing there,yet they made Sun City the most profitable resort in the world.
The story of an old man getting screwed by a casino is a one day media event.A month from then,it fades into memory and in six months is an urban legend.
You forget,its not a heartless corporation,its a tribe of Native Americancs that was crushed into near extinction,that is just now getting its rightful share of the bounty that was stolen from them.They have lawyers and media hacks too,and a heck of a lot more money to throw around then whomever thinks about taking them on.
LVHCM said:.
And please sir, NEVER cash out after a backoff.
sagefr0g said:why would you not cash out after a backoff?
best regards,
mr fr0g
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