Move over Grifter
  • I just read an E-mail newsletter from B21 and one section talked about the casinos in Missouri. It appears that the $500 limit may be eliminated and a new method of identification (fingerprints) may be introduced.

    What a joke! These casinos are part of my travels on 3-4 day mini-trips and it was bad enough that you had to have a players card to get on the gaming floor. Now it may become something like a police line-up to get to the tables.

    I've just about had it with the blackjack world and if stud poker makes a comeback as some articles suggest, I'm finished. There is a limit to what us church mice will tolerate.
  • Ray - No need to move over, there is plenty of room in the pool........So jump on in and get your poker feet wet.

    5 & 7 Stud is always going to be around, but hold 'em is the game right now and if you played a decent stud game I think limit hold 'em would be a perfect fit for you. Limit hold 'em is a "steady" game that flows much like stud, and doesn't have the wildness that no limit has; due to kids and TVA's (TV assholes).........And I assume it is readily available at the casinos on your regular route.

    Get some books (I can recommend the best ones), read and learn them, and of course memorize the basic strategy (yes, it's just like BJ in that respect). And once you do that, although I'm no expert I would be glad to meet you halfway between our homes and grill you and drill you on basic strategy of starting hands, position, betting, pot odds, etc......Getting your feet wet in real casino play you will have to do yourself.

    As Nike says, "Just Do It".

  • Grifter- The only problem I have with hold 'em is the shared card concept. I think it shifts things more toward the technical and away from the intuitive of 5&7 card stud. By that I mean, it becomes more of a math, probability/odds type of game and adds to the learning curve. Now, I don't mean that stud is void of these considerations, there is just quite a bit more to consider in hold 'em. The only thing that I'm a "natural" in is "9" ball, so I've got to learn stuff.

    I think I told you before that I regret not learning the casino games early on, but who would have thought that all the back-room games would go to hold 'em. The proximity of casinos and lately television had a lot to do with stud becoming history.

    Question: Do you have Fred's 77 ways to get the edge in poker. I have some poker books, but I would like to study nothing but hold 'em and was wondering to what depth he covers the subject. Also other good references.

    Thanks, Ray
  • Ray – You are 100% correct. Hold ‘Em is definitely a “math, probability, odds” driven game, and yes that does add to the learning curve; but there is plenty of “intuitive” play involved after you learn the basic strategy……in fact, that is what makes the winners big winners (you play to a positive EV with just basic strategy in a typical game).

    Learning Curve: Most of the math/probability/odds is included in basic strategy, but of course that is what makes the basic strategy so complex (say 10 times more than BJ) because you have to learn/memorize starting hands, position, pot odds, implied odds, etc., plus be able to adjust those for the number of players and whether the game is being played loose, normal, or tight.

    But here’s the kicker……learn basic strategy and you will probably be able to play any low stakes game in your area to a positive EV because right now there are a ton of people sitting at poker tables that don’t have a clue about basic strategy; and those people are your meal ticket………Then after basic strategy, you learn and practice to be a “good” player, learning how to read other players, what their cards are, tells, etc., etc., etc, plus all the intuitive plays you referred to.

    No, I don’t have that book of Fred’s, but here are the four I would recommend you start with for Limit Hold ‘Em:
    - “Hold ‘Em Poker” by Sklansky
    - “Hold ‘Em Poker for Advanced Players” by Sklansky and Malmuth
    - “Small Stakes Hold ‘Em” by Sklanksy, Malmuth, and Miller
    - “Weighing the Odds In Hold ‘Em Poker” by Yao

    Go for it………Grifter

    p.s……My apologies if this poker thread is upsetting anyone……Send me a PM if it is.

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