Although I use around 50 indices when I play, I've run sims that show an increase in EV from +0.75% to just +0.76%, or 0.01% net by adding 10 more indices to the Illustrious 18 (shoe game).

Would like to hear from Norm on this. Have you done any experimenting here?

learningtocount said:

The most improtant index plays are for plus 1 and minus 1 I wonder if you just knew those index play alone how much your starting advantage would be.
When the count is minus 1 hit an 11 vs an Ace no matter how many decks are in use.
There are many more index plays you can make.

+/-1 is not nearly so important as +2, +3 and +4 indices. Those are the ones where you have _BIG_ bets out and those are the ones where you need to play most accurately. The -1 indices are always with small bets out and there is nothing significant to be won/lost during those circumstances... As a matter of fact, I will most likely not be playing at -1 unless it is a SD/DD game. At a shoe, I'm off to the restroom or whatever at -1 and don't need negative indices.

All though 7,8,9 don't effect you overall all that much they can have an effect on a particular outcome of a particular hand. Especially when you are dealt a stiff of 12-16. Depending on what stiff you got these cards could help or hurt you. Lets say for instance you where dealt a 12 vs a 4. In a one or two deck game your decision on weather to hit or stand on this one could be deciced on how many 7,8,9 you see on other peoples hands regardless of the count be slightly positive or slightly negative! If you can see 2 hands of two cards each 1 card of 7,8,9 is the average you will see. If zero cards of 7,8,9's where used in two of the player hands next to me I think that hitting a 12 vs a 4 in a zero to a plus 1 count could be the right play it is usually the right play in a negative 1 count. If there is an abundance "2 or more" of 7,8,9 in the other players hands you are looking at 2 hands so for cards total you have to get to a much more negative count to hiting a 12 vs a 4 to be a justified play.

learningtocount said:

Although 80% of the time you should follow basic stragedy for the best way to play your hand there is still 20% of the time that you can violate basic stragedy and be right for doing so here are some examples.
You are playing single deck and get dealt 2 7's against a 10 staying is the correct play.

You are in a negative count and get a 12 vs a 4 hitting is a better play than standing because some of the cards that bust you are not available in the drawing cards.

You are in a positive count and get a 16 vs a 10 staying is a good play.

You are in a negative count and get an 11 vs a dealer 10 or ace hitting instead of doubling is the right play.

There are about 30 plays that depend upon the count that can violate basic stragedy.

The most what you can accomplish by playing index is to break even or have a slight edge. Very small edge indeed if you flat bet while having your bank at risk for nothing.
You're better off with few index plays (Insurance, 16 vs. 9, 16 vs. T, 15 vs. T, 12 vs. 2,3,4 and if you have balls TT vs. 5,6 as a split) and bet more in pos or let bet ride in pos.
Now you make some money and have more fun with less ROR.
If you want to make big $$ you have to hassle the game. You have to pretend, con and make look like you chase and go all the way to the table limit.

Knox -- I memorized 80 indices when I learned to play 30 years ago. Didn't know they'd be worth so little. And with the shoe game, more than 40 very seldom come into play.