Counting Systems for Beginners
  • What counting system would you guys suggest for someone who is just starting to get into counting?

    I have been considering KO Rookie, KISS I and Red 7. I am a pretty scatterbrained individual and sometimes have a hard time concentrating and dealing with numbers, so I am willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for ease of use.

    I was looking into Speed Count and OPP, but have heard that they aren't really worth the trouble.

    I have BJ Blue Book II and was looking over KISS Level I, but have a bit of a bias against the system for what will ultimately seem to be an entirely silly reason to everyone, and that is simply that I can't get over the name. "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Why? KO, Red 7, Zen. . . These all sound cool. But I would probably look to the ground when I said I practiced a system based off the acronym KISS.

    Silly, I know. . . So you guys can avoid posts that say things like:

    "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."
  • OK. that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    :)

    But, back to the point. KISS will work. KO will work. (forget OPP, speed-count, etc..., anything that seems too simple probably is.) And for the record, you can't go wrong with hi-lo. It's the most frequently used system around and it also works and is easy to use with some practice.
  • The best thing that a beginner can do would be to practice the hit or stand game on difficult mode and try to get a 100% on it at least 3 times in a row with a good bonus score.
    I have heard of the kiss count and to me it is more confusing than the regular counting system.
    I prefer the hi-low count I think it is easier and more acurate than any other count. If you can count forward and backwards by 1 one at a time you can keep the hi low count. The way it works is each card has a value of plus 1 or 1 minus and 7,8,9 is 0. You count 2,3,4,5,6 as the come out of the deck as plus 7,8,9 is 0 10 value cards, and Aces is minus 1. Please don't write saying you can count an ace as 1 or 11 so it should be neutral, thats wrong. An ace is counts minus 1 because your better off with it in the deck than with it not in the deck. You need aces for blackjacks, soft hands, and if you can double on any two cards they make a lot of good doubling hands as well.
  • shadow_priest_x said:
    What counting system would you guys suggest for someone who is just starting to get into counting? I am a pretty scatterbrained individual and sometimes have a hard time concentrating and dealing with numbers, so I am willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for ease of use. I have BJ Blue Book II and was looking over KISS Level I, but have a bit of a bias against the system for what will ultimately seem to be an entirely silly reason to everyone, and that is simply that I can't get over the name. "Keep It Simple, Stupid." I would probably look to the ground when I said I practiced a system based off the acronym KISS."


    I may have a solution for you. Change the acronym to "Keep It Short and Simple". Later, after you become comfortable with the short version (KISS I), you can expand to the higher performing, expanded versions.
    How do you feel about it now?
  • learningtocount said:
    The best thing that a beginner can do would be to practice the hit or stand game on difficult mode and try to get a 100% on it at least 3 times in a row with a good bonus score.
    I have heard of the kiss count and to me it is more confusing than the regular counting system.
    I prefer the hi-low count I think it is easier and more acurate than any other count. If you can count forward and backwards by 1 one at a time you can keep the hi low count. The way it works is each card has a value of plus 1 or 1 minus and 7,8,9 is 0. You count 2,3,4,5,6 as the come out of the deck as plus 7,8,9 is 0 10 value cards, and Aces is minus 1. Please don't write saying you can count an ace as 1 or 11 so it should be neutral, thats wrong. An ace is counts minus 1 because your better off with it in the deck than with it not in the deck. You need aces for blackjacks, soft hands, and if you can double on any two cards they make a lot of good doubling hands as well.



    Yeah, I've read up on HiLo and it seems that KISS I is basically HiLo with fewer cards to count and no true count conversion. There may be more to it than that, though.
  • shadow_priest_x said:
    Yeah, I've read up on HiLo and it seems that KISS I is basically HiLo with fewer cards to count and no true count conversion. There may be more to it than that, though.


    Here's the thing.

    (1) any solid system (and KISS/Red-7/KO/etc are all solid) will win money at 21 if used properly. So the first step is to pick one and learn to use it accurately.

    (2) non-TC systems have some built-in error because they are not true-counted. Reaching the Pivot point early, as opposed to late, shifts the error from being too optimistic to being too conservative. TC systems don't suffer from this.

    That said, it is up to you to determine which you can do. I've not found it hard to do the TC conversion at all. If you contact www.qfit.com and buy casino verite' blackjack, and practice hi-lo daily, you will most likely find that true-counting is easier than rumor would suggest. If you practice enough, you won't even know you are doing the TC conversion, in fact, it just becomes automatic, just like knowing that you double 5-6 vs 6 without having to think about it at all...

    practice is the key. And that's true of every skilful task you will undertake. The more you practice the more accurate you become and the easier the task becomes...

    The rest is up to you. If you just can't get past the remaining deck estimation and true count conversion, then an unbalanced count would be the next choice since it eliminates those issues, at a small (very small) loss of accuracy.
  • stainless steel rat said:
    Here's the thing.

    (1) any solid system (and KISS/Red-7/KO/etc are all solid) will win money at 21 if used properly. So the first step is to pick one and learn to use it accurately.

    (2) non-TC systems have some built-in error because they are not true-counted. Reaching the Pivot point early, as opposed to late, shifts the error from being too optimistic to being too conservative. TC systems don't suffer from this.

    That said, it is up to you to determine which you can do. I've not found it hard to do the TC conversion at all. If you contact www.qfit.com and buy casino verite' blackjack, and practice hi-lo daily, you will most likely find that true-counting is easier than rumor would suggest. If you practice enough, you won't even know you are doing the TC conversion, in fact, it just becomes automatic, just like knowing that you double 5-6 vs 6 without having to think about it at all...

    practice is the key. And that's true of every skilful task you will undertake. The more you practice the more accurate you become and the easier the task becomes...

    The rest is up to you. If you just can't get past the remaining deck estimation and true count conversion, then an unbalanced count would be the next choice since it eliminates those issues, at a small (very small) loss of accuracy.



    Thanks for the info. I'm a pretty scatterbrained individual and get flustered easily when a lot of things are going on at once--probably why I was never a good waiter--and so the less mental gymnastics I have to worry about the better. Plus, while I can understand how someone can learn to do it with a high level of accuracy, it seems that estimating the exact number of decks left to be played never really will be exact so your TC might be off by 1 point at any given time.

    At this point I will probably go with KISS I as it seems to be the simplest of the simple systems--disregarding OPP, Speed Count, etc.--and I like the upgrade path. It seems that KISS III is basically HiLo without the TC conversion.
  • Renzey said:
    I may have a solution for you. Change the acronym to "Keep It Short and Simple". Later, after you become comfortable with the short version (KISS I), you can expand to the higher performing, expanded versions.
    How do you feel about it now?



    Ha ha, I have spent all day trying to come up with a good (and probably humorous) reinterperetation of the KISS acronym but keep getting stuck on the I. Which leaves me with:

    Kard
    I
    Super
    System

    I keep wanting to rename it KASS for Kard Assassin Super System.

    But all joking aside, I do like the whole idea of the upgrade path and if I do choose to go the counting route, then I will probably start with KISS I. As I mentioned to SSR, it seems to be the simplest of the simple systems.
  • shadow_priest_x said:
    Thanks for the info. I'm a pretty scatterbrained individual and get flustered easily when a lot of things are going on at once--probably why I was never a good waiter--and so the less mental gymnastics I have to worry about the better. Plus, while I can understand how someone can learn to do it with a high level of accuracy, it seems that estimating the exact number of decks left to be played never really will be exact so your TC might be off by 1 point at any given time.

    At this point I will probably go with KISS I as it seems to be the simplest of the simple systems--disregarding OPP, Speed Count, etc.--and I like the upgrade path. It seems that KISS III is basically HiLo without the TC conversion.


    You will be surprised at how accurately you can estimate remaining decks by glancing at the discard tray. In shoes, 1-deck accuracy is more than good enough. I have seen machinists that can look at a piece of metal and tell you its thickness within .001 or better. The human eye is an amazingly precise instrument, once trained properly.

    But, if that is a problem for you, an unbalanced count might be better since it eliminates that aspect of the system.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!