Starting Out A Group
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I have made a feasibility study on playing Blackjack and Pontoon as a business. Since last month, I've been secretly training two teams of 5 persons each to card count and shuffle track. Two teams shall each have a quota of $1,000 per 3 hour shift with a playing capital of $4,000 per team, per shift. Both teams shall play 2 shifts a day. Losses shall be limited to $1,200 per day only. If a team reaches the limit, they cut the session and rest for teh next day, when they start anew. Excess winnings each day shall be pooled to cover up for losses incurred on bad days. Team leaders will have their members swapped randomly for every shift and everyday so as not to be identified as a group, and shall play at different casinos per shift. Total capital I got from our 6 investors is $16,000. We plan to commence by end September and go strip the local circuit on a daily basis. Any suggestions from our good members here how I could go about best on this? Thanks.
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So youve found a way to beat Pontoon? I only know two ways and theyre both illegal.
As far as setting up a team, there are several books that cover the basic format and procedures. Ustons Million Dollar Blackjack has lots of info, as does Blackjack Blueprint and Blackjack Attack.
Essentially you need to treat it like a business. You need to know what your overhead is, expenses, projected profit, payroll, investments, risk of ruin, short-term variance, probability of succeeding for a given time, length of time to reach the goal, etc. You should also have an outline of the teams procedures. Everything from practicing, training, testing, playing, retesting, management procedures, exclusions, terminations, and much more should all be thoroughly explained and written down so that everyone agrees to the terms and understands what is involved.
Then you can train.
Then you can play.
-Sonny- -
Yeah I did sir Sonny, at least when the local casinos' conditions here are concerned. I already have all the necessities you've mentioned. Though it is of conflict of interest with the training school for casino dealers I've initially put up, I am keeping it very, very discreet so as not to catch attention and gossip. Lest we want to be banned even before we start operation. Made the training short and easy for the group members, assigning specific values (2-3, 4-5, 6-8, picture cards and aces, specifically for each member) to count and track while they continuously train. Hopefully I can get more ideas on how to go about the running of the group. Do feed me sirs. Thanks for the suggestion sir Sonny.
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Not to cause any worries but what are the chances that casino investigators are actually reading these threads?
Best to keep this on the down low... -
Can i ask, have you used either shuffle tracking or sequencing yourself?
Can your team members count?
RJT.
I didn't realise this thread was so old when i first posted this - so i don't expect an answer. -
wink said:Not to cause any worries but what are the chances that casino investigators are actually reading these threads?
Best to keep this on the down low...
Well, there maybe casino investigators who are. But hey, I still am anonymous. And yes, I am keeping it on a low. We already have operated, are having satrisfactory results and my teams are virtually undetectable. I have a assembled a cover team as well. Thanks for the advise though. -
RJT said:Can i ask, have you used either shuffle tracking or sequencing yourself?
Can your team members count?
RJT.
I didn't realise this thread was so old when i first posted this - so i don't expect an answer.
Yes RJT, my team members count accurately, as well as shuffle track. I have been using shuffle tracking to aid my counting for over 8 years now. -
Appetite said:Yes RJT, my team members count accurately, as well as shuffle track. I have been using shuffle tracking to aid my counting for over 8 years now.
That's excellent! On first read i got the impression that you were trying to train a team to do something you could not do yourself. That might have worked with counting, but not with shuffle tracking or sequencing.
Glad to hear your team in having success. If they are gaining good results out of shuffle tracking, you've taught them very well!
RJT. -
RJT said:That's excellent! On first read i got the impression that you were trying to train a team to do something you could not do yourself. That might have worked with counting, but not with shuffle tracking or sequencing.
Glad to hear your team in having success. If they are gaining good results out of shuffle tracking, you've taught them very well!
RJT.
Thanks RJT. Sad news for me I had to terminate 3 members of my team as they became dishonest and greedy. Well, it's a risk I took. They now have the skills to make on their own but they will ned to find themselves a good capitalist, unless they have "saved" a lot during their term with me. Happy Holidays, BTW, to all here! -
Appetite said:Thanks RJT. Sad news for me I had to terminate 3 members of my team as they became dishonest and greedy. Well, it's a risk I took. They now have the skills to make on their own but they will ned to find themselves a good capitalist, unless they have "saved" a lot during their term with me. Happy Holidays, BTW, to all here!
Be prepared for worse than that. Disgrunteled team mates can cause a lot of problems and can be a sever security risk - especially to an advanced team like yours where burnt out players are hard to replace.
Out of interest how did you find out that they were being dishonest?
RJT. -
RJT said:Be prepared for worse than that. Disgrunteled team mates can cause a lot of problems and can be a sever security risk - especially to an advanced team like yours where burnt out players are hard to replace.
Out of interest how did you find out that they were being dishonest?
RJT.
They know it's their fault. Well, when they changed chips at the cashier, they pocket a few Thousand Pesos. They already did it Four times in a row. I didn't acost them the first few times to get to see if this is going to continue. It did. They declare their wins short of what I monitored and their losses greater than what is actual. I just plainly asked the cashiers how much they changed. I let them change chips first before I did. And I pretend to just ignore how much they change. I know these people of mine have been observing me since. So they were shocked that I knew of it even from the start. It practically drove them to tears to realize that it was too late for them. I give people a chamce, first time maybe out of need. The second maybe a follow up on that need. The third is already an abuse of my leniency and an inlsult to my intellect. -
Appetite said:They know it's their fault. Well, when they changed chips at the cashier, they pocket a few Thousand Pesos. They already did it Four times in a row. I didn't acost them the first few times to get to see if this is going to continue. It did. They declare their wins short of what I monitored and their losses greater than what is actual. I just plainly asked the cashiers how much they changed. I let them change chips first before I did. And I pretend to just ignore how much they change. I know these people of mine have been observing me since. So they were shocked that I knew of it even from the start. It practically drove them to tears to realize that it was too late for them. I give people a chamce, first time maybe out of need. The second maybe a follow up on that need. The third is already an abuse of my leniency and an inlsult to my intellect.
That's an excellent method to keep tabs on them. I would have said that it was error prone if you only looked for one error (your own miscounts of their chips) but as you are double and triple checking, you've got pretty good information.
And a completely agree - as much as kicking people off the team is a security risk, playing with dishonest players is more of a security risk!
RJT. -
I am new to gambling so this may be a stupid question, but not going to learn if I don't ask. So, I am reading about your venture, financed with $16,000, and wonder what the net would be on that operation over, say a 3 month period, or however long you would calculate it. You'd have ten employees and yourself to feed. When I play practice games I don't seem to make that much, but I am only betting $10.
luchia -
I am new to gambling so this may be a stupid question, but not going to learn if I don't ask. So, I am reading about your venture, financed with $16,000, and wonder what the net would be on that operation over, say a 3 month period, or however long you would calculate it. You'd have ten employees and yourself to feed. When I play practice games I don't seem to make that much, but I am only betting $10.
luchia -
luchia said:I am new to gambling so this may be a stupid question, but not going to learn if I don't ask. So, I am reading about your venture, financed with $16,000, and wonder what the net would be on that operation over, say a 3 month period, or however long you would calculate it. You'd have ten employees and yourself to feed. When I play practice games I don't seem to make that much, but I am only betting $10.
luchia
You are also not shuffle tracking or sequencing - Appitite's team see to be. These techniques increase your advantage substantially but are very hard to master. Alongside this, 10 people playing multiplies the number of hands played by 10 and dramatically reduces the variance of the game.
RJT. -
RJT said:You are also not shuffle tracking or sequencing - Appitite's team see to be. These techniques increase your advantage substantially but are very hard to master. Alongside this, 10 people playing multiplies the number of hands played by 10 and dramatically reduces the variance of the game.
RJT.
Well said RJT. You see Luchia, our operations yielded substantial results and are doing fine. Feeding, as you have termed it, is not appropriate as this doesn't generally do so. I am a businessman and I got other sources of livelihood. We do play on a professional level for extra income and for fun. We have had our shares of losses. It is part of the game. But having said that we do have other skills than just counting, we have more than the edge we need to keep the profits coming. And no, we don't just play $10. We play min.-max.. Having set the shoe, we occasionally flat bet the max from top to bottom. Unbelievable? Believe it. -'wink'- -
luchia said:I am new to gambling so this may be a stupid question, but not going to learn if I don't ask. So, I am reading about your venture, financed with $16,000, and wonder what the net would be on that operation over, say a 3 month period, or however long you would calculate it. You'd have ten employees and yourself to feed. When I play practice games I don't seem to make that much, but I am only betting $10.
luchia
Our playing capital is now well over $100,000. Wouldn't quote exact figures here though. We have till March to cover the remaining 50% of our investors' return of investments. Once this is done, then everyone will have their fair share of the goodtimes. Net, therefore, is the rest of our playing days' turn-out, here in Manila and abroad, after our return of investments. And my team isn't a 10-man team anymore. We have reduced manpower and, it follows, there is an increase in individual profits.
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