Card Counting Systems w/o Trueing...
  • As the title reads, which card counting systems would you guys recommend that do not utilize the dreaded element of "trueing."

  • Vile Hand

    I use Renzy's A-10Front Count. Play together with my wife. I count the A-10's and she counts the number of cards played and then signals me when they reach 104 cards. If the count is positive I then raise my bet on the next hand. My wife plays perfect basic strategy, but usually does raise her bet on the next hand. Sometimes does on a hand or two after 2 decks played. I go up to 6 units bet in two hands. We usually play at $10 table. If crowded she stands behind me and signals me after 2 decks played.

    Have had good luck with this in last 4 or 5 months or so. By no means a sure thing. Often lose on big bets, but over long run(5 months) has been a winner. At $10 table I bring $400 bankroll to play. Quit when I lose it. Does not happen often, but is has happened. When winning let my profits run. Biggest win in last 5 months--$1250.

    I like this better than progression betting, but you have to be prepared to lose any day you go to the casino in both cases.

    Good luck.

  • Ment to say that my wife usually does not raise her bet after 2 decks played. Afraid it would attract atention if we both did.

  • Vile, here are two solid choices.
    Renzey's Kiss-3... the book you wanna read is "BlackJack Bluebook II" by Fred Renzey.
    Or the K-O system.... book is "Knock-Out BlackJack" by Vancura and Fuchs.

    These are unbalanced counts that can give you a solid advantage without any trueing. There's nothing wrong with the Ace-ten, its a good start will put you about even with the house... maybe provides a slight edge. But I'd recommend putting in the extra effort and practice to learn one of the two systems mentioned above.
  • Vile - and there is also a third one......the forerunner of both of the above that GH21 mentioned.

    Arnold Snyder's "Red Seven", found in "Blackbelt In Blackjack". I used this with good success in the late '80's.

  • The eldest no true system might be Revere's Five Count. Good on single deck play. Uston added a side-count of Aces, that made it useful for 2 decks, and a year later I simply used a net score of 5's (+1) and Aces (-1). When I bought a simulator in '98 I found that I could use mine for all S17 games, and a 2-deck H17 game that MUST allow surrender. Until I bought the simulator, I played strict BS using the net score to determine wagers. Its not the best... but in several forms tried and "true".

  • Great, thanks to everyone for the replies.

    Now that I know that Renzey's KISS-3 doesn't involve "trueing, "I'll probably end up using that system since I'll be reading his book anyways.


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