Cards and 1099-Gs
  • I have a question (again) about comp cards. Can anyone tell me accurately what happens to the info on them? Is there any situation (short of huge wins) that they are used to give info to the Gov, for tax purposes?

    You hand your card to the PB, he goes off with it, and it's logged into some database. After play at the table you're handed it back, and presumably some record of your play at that session is recorded. I know they need/like to do this for their records, but what else possibly becomes of that info? I remember once reading that BJ earnings (again, regular wins/losses, not huge gains) couldn't be tracked because it's hard to verify what you bought in for, or what you have previously lost. But isn't that exactly what the card tells the powers that be?

    I'm very confused on this issue, and I think it relates to all of us. Can anyone enlighten?

    John
  • John - I suggest you try gamblingandthelaw.com. They probably have your answer, or a link where you can get it........Grifter
  • Grif, thank you for the pointer to a most excellence site. Pretty much found what I was looking for there. This is from a 2001 column that Prof Rose wrote:

    " The one good news is Nevada casinos were also able to convince the IRS that they could not keep track of players at table games. They said that when a player cashes out for $7,000, they do not know whether he started with $25 or $25,000. So it is actually written into the law that there is no withholding or even reporting of big winnings to the IRS for blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette or the big-6 wheel."

    That's interesting. I'm not sure if it applies to other states as well. The Prof offered a email link, so I wrote and asked to clarify this. Don't know if I will get a reply (I'm sure he is busy), but if so I will relate it here.

    Also a great column there on counters. Really, spilling a drink on a counter to harass him? Wow!

    Some great gambling law links there too.

    Thanks Grif

    John

    PS: Of course my topic title should have read W2-Gs and not 1099s. Duh!
  • John: I've played in a lot of places and cashed out a few hundred to a few
    thousand without any problem or accounting. There may be some rule, as
    I remember, that says if you win 300 X bet, the IRS may get involved.
    About the only game this could apply to would be a slot jackpot. Don't
    quote me on this vague memory because I can't recall where I read or
    seen the thing.

    Maybe it was 3000 x bet, that sounds more reasonable and more likely
    for slots. What happens if you put three coins in a slot and win a million?


    Ray
  • Ray, have you ever had to fill out a CTR form? I thought the casino was required to give you one if you cash out over a certain amount.
  • Slots, Video Poker and Keno is where the law applies for the most part. Keno is usually 300x AND $600 or more the bet if less than $1, $1500 per dollar wagered. Video poker and Slots sre usually 600x bet AND $1200. Video keno is like the slots and VP, and treated as such. There are variations to this "general rule" usually to the low side.

    If I'm not mistaken, there is also a $10000+ transaction rule, in which the IRS is notified the transaction occured. I believe proper ID is required with a signature... no taxes are taken and no fees are paid. Its for "informational purposes only".

    Here at the 2 Native American Casinos, there is also a rule that no chips removed from the property can come back into the property.


    Best I can figure for now... please advise/correct if wrong.

    N&B
  • PJ: Never, no questions, sometimes the cashier gets something which
    I think is just an ok for large transactions. Other than that.....zip

    N & B, I think all banks now have the 10000 trans rule.....to the IRS
  • Thanks N&B, your info is well appreciated since that's where I play. However, I didn't know about this:

    Nickels_n_Bullets said:

    Here at the 2 Native American Casinos, there is also a rule that no chips removed from the property can come back into the property.


    Wow, that saves making a dumb mistake. BTW, how would they identify what chips were taken out? Sensors wouldn't work 'cause you can move to different casinos inside the main area. Good info.

    John
  • According to a "Gambling and the Law" article, casinos are classified as financial institutions, therefore are also subject to reporting transactions amounting to $10K or more. They are also required to report any questionable or suspicious transaction even if it is less than $10K.
  • I did hear back from Professor Rose. He stated that he believed the rule applied in all States.

    John
  • What I mean is for the chip carrier to leave the Sovereign Nation and return. Sorry about the confusion. There are sensors at the outdoor exits, but I think those are metal detectors for weapons check. The rule is primarily for counterfeiting purposes.

    N&B
  • I wasn't aware of this rule... am not sure how they could enforce it unless they see you leaving with chips and will ask you to cash them in.
    I've walked in and out of MS with chips on a few occasions.
  • Yea, me too... never more than $25, souvenir stuff you might say. I have a full set of $10 grey "signature" chips from Foxwoods. No luck on the 10th Anniversary chip, though. Also have a $5 5th Anniversary.

    N&B
  • "They are also required to report any questionable or suspicious transaction even if it is less than $10K."


    Isn't the Patriot Act wonderful? The "86'em" law redefined.

    N&B
  • Nickels_n_Bullets said:
    "They are also required to report any questionable or suspicious transaction even if it is less than $10K."


    Isn't the Patriot Act wonderful? The "86'em" law redefined.

    N&B


    I'm fairly certain that rule was around long before the Patriot Act.
  • Lot of good information discussed lately. One of the things that I wondered about when I began this thread (but negelected to state) was the question of what the house knows, from card use. Let me explain. I'm comfortable now with the tax aspect. What worries me is the info that the casino retains, via that comp card. Everyone here, as an advantage player, knows it's smart to not bring undue attention to your playing. But doesn't the card give them an accurate view of your wins over a period of time? I mean, say you had 4 or 5 REALLY good sessions over a two week period. Don't they know this next time you sit down and hand them your card? And wouldn't they be paying a little closer attention to you?

    I know there is also some wisdom in the fact that you might seem suspicious for not using a card ("what does he have to hide?")

    The happy medium for me seems to be using it maybe half the time. Still get some of the comps, but still "hide" some of the wins.

    Any thoughts on this?

    John
  • The only things I'm aware of are the basics: the card#, the "points accumulated", and the date/time of last use. Maybe there is a code# that tells what (slot, table, keno, etc) the last use was. Perhaps name & date of birth for confirmation.

    N&B
  • Nickels_n_Bullets said:
    The only things I'm aware of are the basics: the card#, the "points accumulated", and the date/time of last use. Maybe there is a code# that tells what (slot, table, keno, etc) the last use was. Perhaps name & date of birth for confirmation.

    N&B


    Well, that I'm fine with. If that's the case, then I'm much more comfortable. Nickels, what do you base this on? I mean, are you fairly sure this is the extent?

    John
  • Until the word "Maybe" in my last response is what everyone keeps telling me when I asked. From maybe and beyond, is a guess. However, they do know the date and time of the last use, when I've sneaked a peek at the terminal.

    N&B
  • I'm surprised that there's not a current or ex-casino employee that belongs to this board that can answer this question..
  • Sorry about the length of this but here is what the Halifax Casino site states (in part):

    What Information We Collect and How We Use It

    The Player's Club Program

    Members of the Player's Club program provide the Casino with Personal Information... this Personal Information (is used) for the following purposes:

    To administer the Player's Club Program, including the management of accounts to accurately record, update and redeem Player's Club rewards;

    To process reward redemption, including the issuance of reward vouchers;

    To administer and maintain detailed information related to gaming activities;

    To communicate information and offers to our members; and
    To enable members to participate in promotions and contests.

    Personal Information related to Player's Club members' preferences is collected and used so that the Casino can tailor its services and facilities to meet and exceed the needs of our members and customers.

    The Casino and Hotel Website

    When you visit the Website, our web servers automatically collect a limited amount of information. This information helps in the assessment and administration of information services and is used only for that purpose. This information includes:

    The page from which you arrived,

    The date and time of your page request,

    The Internet domain name or IP address your computer is using to receive information,

    The type and version of your browser, and

    The name and size of the file you request.

    Your Internet domain name or IP address may identify you depending in large part, on the naming standards followed by your Internet service provider.

    In addition to this anonymous information, we may also collect information that is about an identifiable individual, referred to in this policy as Personal Information. Personal information includes information that tells us specifically who you are, such as an e-mail address, name, birthday, telephone number or postal address. We will only collect Personal Information in circumstances where it is necessary to provide a specific, requested service.

    If you contact us by e-mail, we will keep a record of that correspondence,

    Your e-mail address will be used to distribute e-mail alerts. If you change your e-mail address, you must unsubscribe then re-subscribe to e-mail alerts. The Casino does not maintain any "change of e-mail address" information about you.

    Who is collecting the information?

    Personal information provided to us (whether via the Website, telephone, fax, or in person) is collected directly by either the Casino or the Hotel, unless we have contracted with a third-party service provider to do so on our behalf. When third-parties operate promotions or contests or collect information through surveys or questionnaires on our behalf, we require that all Personal Information collected is only used for the purposes intended. Participation in contests, promotions, surveys or questionnaires are entirely voluntary.
  • Grumpworth said:
    Sorry about the length of this but here is what the Halifax Casino site states (in part):


    To administer and maintain detailed information related to gaming activities;



    That's the part I'm a bit paranoid about!

    Great info Grump, thanks

    John

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