hitting on soft 17
  • The Montreal casino has recently, this week, started hitting of soft 17 saying that that's what the players want....

    This has happended a few times during my play and I got screwed everytime......how can the players have asked for this
  • Montreal - I'm sure the players didn't ask for it, and the casino is "pulling your chain" (a polite phrase for lying).......The H17 adds a whopping 0.21% to their advantage.....Grifter
  • And you MUST alter YOUR strategy as well !
  • Yeah that's what I thought...........well the 100$ tables are still with the old system.........but I am not ready to go there untill I get a decent system going......for now I'm happy with what I'm getting

    So talking about systems, please will someone make a list and detailed method of the few good ones so I can try.......especially interested in progression ones

    For now I play 25$ tables, 5$ increase after each loss, 5$ increase after each win and 50$ limit......but I'm flexible....if the dealler did not get a 10 for one turn, I usually don't increase......kind of a bulshi-t system I know.............but hey I'm getting profits ......
  • If you're making $$$ then its the right one for you. Personally, I like increasing on wins, and bet 1x after a loss. The only suggestion I have for you is to tweak that ramp a bit to cover the odds, as I posted previous. 25-30-35-40-50-60 I'd recomend no more than that. Whatever.
  • Hey Montreal,

    Do they now have that hitting on soft 17 rule on all tables in the Montreal casino? I was there a few months ago and they had two sets of tables. One had the hit soft 17 rule and one didn't. The one that did have the rule were the tables that allowed you to play behind someone. The ones that didn't have the rule did not allow you to play behind someone. Also, any helpful notes on number of decks, penetration, etc would be appreciated.

    Thanks
  • Play behind someone?
    What does that mean? You literally stand behind someone when you're playing? ( I hope that's not a metaphor for something that's really simple, I hate feeling too stupid.)

    MiKehOu§eMASTER
  • it just means that there is an extra circle behind the player's circle where someone else that is not sitting at the table can bet on... So if the player wins then the person playin with him wins too... so in other words 12 people can play on the same table... the person in the back has no say though whether to hit or stand...
  • I'll be damned, That's what's so cool about this board (for me) I learn stuff like that all the time. Where in the heck is this done? I'd like to stand behind AlexD some night, I'd be rich!
    But, seriously though, is this pretty common or just a Canadian thing?
    You are in Canada, right?
    Mike
  • montreal said:
    Yeah that's what I thought...........well the 100$ tables are still with the old system.........but I am not ready to go there untill I get a decent system going......for now I'm happy with what I'm getting

    So talking about systems, please will someone make a list and detailed method of the few good ones so I can try.......especially interested in progression ones

    For now I play 25$ tables, 5$ increase after each loss, 5$ increase after each win and 50$ limit......but I'm flexible....if the dealler did not get a 10 for one turn, I usually don't increase......kind of a bulshi-t system I know.............but hey I'm getting profits ......


    What?
    You increase $5 after a loss and another $5 after a win?
    Ha! Ha! Ha! --- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
  • So sorry Alex, not everyone can have a system that wins $4000 every session, with no losses, a max bet of only $55 for 10,000 hands then miraculously have a $75 bet after others tell you they had high bets.
  • Nickels_n_Bullets said:
    tweak that ramp a bit to cover the odds, as I posted previous. 25-30-35-40-50-60 I'd recomend no more than that.


    N&B, you seem to have a pretty good insight on progs. Just curious what your opinion is on these three:

    1. 25-35-35-50 (revert to 25 after 50) 4 quit points

    2. 25-35-40-50 (revert after 50) 4QP

    3. 25-30-35-40-50 (stay at 50) 4 QP (I think this was your own)

    As far as tweaking to cover the odds, are any of these better?

    I use No. 1 in real play, with a fair amount of success. 2 & 3 I've been simming, trying to decide if they have more merit. Your comments are appreciated.

    John
  • Is there any variation in the eventual outcome in such a small variances in betting units between these 3 progressions?
  • Mike said:
    Is there any variation in the eventual outcome in such a small variances in betting units between these 3 progressions?


    You know what? Probably not. They are such small variances, and I have a gut feeling it's more a matter of perception as to the difference in the three. I've been using the first one at the tables, and I'm happy with it. The other two were just for sims. But I think there is probably little difference in the outcome between the three. I think I will stick with what has been good so far. And it has been good so far, though some sessions were much longer than others. Using a $600 BR I've yet to tap out, so I think I'll shut up and be happy with this one :D

    John
  • jm2552 said:
    [quote=Mike]Is there any variation in the eventual outcome in such a small variances in betting units between these 3 progressions?


    You know what? Probably not. They are such small variances, and I have a gut feeling it's more a matter of perception as to the difference in the three. I've been using the first one at the tables, and I'm happy with it. The other two were just for sims. But I think there is probably little difference in the outcome between the three. I think I will stick with what has been good so far. And it has been good so far, though some sessions were much longer than others. Using a $600 BR I've yet to tap out, so I think I'll shut up and be happy with this one :D

    John[/quote]

    Using a 600.00 BR I think you should be able to use any one of those progressions up to a 25.00 table and do very well, at least play for a while. I use a 200.00 BR at a 10.00 table and if I can play for 2 or 3 hours I feel ok about it even if I lose most of it. I feel better about it if I'm up a few hundred though. :wink: I use #3 as I don’t revert until a loss.
  • The original, and still published, would work out to 25-50-75-75, advancing if both 75's win. After much playtime, My answer is that really the jump from 25-50 is a killer in the long-run. The two 75's are needed to put something in the bank. Most recently I've simmed some 5-term progressions, for a long session. I think the smaller the 1st increase, the better. For example the current prog. I'm using goes 25-30-40-55-75. Shortening it to 4 terms is 25-30-40-55. If it gets choppy... like WLWLWWLLWLWLWWLL... the house has a difficult time taking my money, as the hand after a win is a $30 bet... meaning 20 of 25 goes back into the bank. I notice that only 15 goes back into the bank with yours.

    After the 2nd win the bet is $40, putting an additional 20 in the bank. Note that the 1st bet "hole" is covered, and theres $15 availible for a DD.

    The 25,35,35,50 puts a nice chunk into the bank when you win 2.

    The first 2 terms in a progression occur 61% and 23.75%... 84.75% of the time you play. Adding a 3rd term, no matter its value, occurs 9.3%, and the 4th term 3.65%. These 4 term % occurances are based on a maximum of 10 terms to drastically reduce the effect of repetition. When you repeat at fewer than 10 terms, the occurance of a 1st or 2nd term increases BEFORE its noticible on the 3rd or 4th, due to restarting the sequence. What that means is that the first 2 terms become more important. Using a $10 jump will lose $10 as often as if that jump were $5.

    My answer is its OK if it works for you. But based on the above, try altering the 2nd term to 30.

    "We are the flank. The Union Army ends right here. We must refuse the line. Today, men, we must be stubborn."... Col. Joshua Chamberlain: 20th Maine
  • If it gets choppy... like WLWLWWLLWLWLWWLL... the house has a difficult time taking my money


    Playing my system over that sequence, not that the house has hard time to take any money from me, I make money for the run. Always!
    In a equal number of wins vs. losses, no matter the order how they come out I always make money.

    Going back to your progression, I would say that you are better off to repeat or even downgrade the second step in order to avoid losing $ in choppy hands where you alternate W & L.
  • "When you repeat at fewer than 10 terms, the occurance of a 1st or 2nd term increases BEFORE its noticible on the 3rd or 4th, due to restarting the sequence."

    Here are the % of occurance for a -->6-term progression:
    61.20%, 23.85, 9.31%, 3.63%,1.43%, and 0.56%

    And for a 4-term progression:
    62.43%, 24.34%, 9.51%, and 3.72% NOTE: terms 1 and 2 occur 86.77%

    As always you stand to win 3 of 7, and tie+lose (not win) 4/7.

    update--> the "5-term % is actually a 6-term, and the typo was fixed the percentaages are correct. And yes there are 6 listed.
  • How about this progression: 25-25-37.5 and back......best one I've ever
    seen...............
  • Nickels_n_Bullets said:
    the house has a difficult time taking my money, as the hand after a win is a $30 bet... meaning 20 of 25 goes back into the bank. I notice that only 15 goes back into the bank with yours.
    The 25,35,35,50 puts a nice chunk into the bank when you win 2.


    Thanks Nickels. That's just the sort of analysis I was looking for.


    Nickels_n_Bullets said:
    My answer is its OK if it works for you. But based on the above, try altering the 2nd term to 30.


    Hmmm, I was at one point using 25-30-40-50 for real play. I will give your suggestion a try and change the second term. Yes, I realize these are small differences, but it's kind of a nice search anyway, to find that close to ideal sequence.

    John
  • Nickels_n_Bullets said:

    And for a 4-term progression:
    62.43%, 24.34%, 9.51%, and 3.72%


    Nice. Can we consider two-term a progression?? :wink:

    John
  • If there is an "ideal" sequence it might be starting with 1 and multiplying by 1.3 for each term... its the SD * L/W for Basic. If so thats the progression I posted 25-30-40-55. The SD * L/W is 1.305 and the 25-30-40-55 ramp is 1.303 for the 4 terms. The 5th term is 70. I tweaked my last run with 75, down to 70 and am currently dealing a few thousand on CVBJ to get a handle on it.

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