Kiss questions and stuff
  • Hi
    I live and play in the uk. (6 deck, 9,10,11 double, no split 4,5,10 ,DAS, no surrender)
    I'm currently learning the kiss count and am progressing on to kiss 2.
    And i got a few questions -
    1. My bankroll for a blackjack session is only £100 (i'm no highroller).
    So my minimum bet is £2 , now renzey's blue book 2 says to increase my minimum bet from £2 to £20 if the count goes to 23+(starting count of 9 for my 6 deck shoe game). But could i just use a 2,2,4,6,8 or a 2,4,6,8,10 betting startegy instead, £8 or £10 being my big bet. How would this effect me apart from not winning/losing more money? Can i even do this with the kiss count or do i gotta stick with the betting strategy the book says?

    2. I read on another post that you shouldn't start your count at 9 for kiss 2
    even though the book says to. Anyone know any different?

    3. If anyone has blue book 2 look on page 155 advance strategy index for 4-8 deck.
    Theres a few things on the chart i don't understand
    my 12 vs 4 has a #s in what does this mean
    my 12 vs 6 has ?s in what does this mean
    my 16 vs 10 has a $s ???????
    my 13 vs 2 has a &s ???????
    The whole adavnce strategy index chart and rules are more than a little confusing i get some of it and some of it doesn't apply to me because of uk rules. But still can't seem to get my head around it.


    Any thoughts appreciated.
  • Hi Luke-
    Fred Renzey is a member of this board-you can send him a pm on this board and ask him personally any questions you have. He has in the past very graciously answered questions for me.
    Best of luck-
    Prog
  • Luke; If your 2-2-4-6-8 is referring to a betting progression, then it has nothing to do with a counting system. The two function in entirely different worlds. But if that's your betting spread according to the count, a 1-to-4 unit betting spread is not enough to net an edge is a shoe game. With only a 100 unit bankroll, you really need to use 1 unit as your base bet and scale it up to 8 units at a count of 23.

    Yes, you should positively begin off the top of a six deck shoe with an initial count of 9. I'd like to see the post that said you shouldn't.

    Regarding the confusion on page 155 of BJBB II, here's an example. The box for 16 against a 10 says, "$s". The "s" means there's a count at which you should stand. The "$" means that number is different for 4, 6 and 8 decks. Look at the footnotes below the table for the "$". It says to stand at 15 (or greater) with six decks. If you play six deck shoes, just plug "15s" into the box for 16 against a 10.

    The latest printing (just out) of BJBB II has massaged the chart for increased clarity. It uses shading to identify the correct action (double, split, etc) and eliminates the letters in the boxes (s for stand, d for double, etc).

    I've gone to a lot of trouble to make the KISS Count both simpler to use and more complete than KO or Red 7. It also has more available refinements (true fudging, half point counting) than the others.
  • The KISS II is extremely simple to use, I've been using this system for about a month and have made about $2000 with it so far. Of course I am not a HUGE bettor and I also have had some losing sessions but my winnings have far out weighed my losing sessions. However I must say that Counting will always be better than 'progressions' which are nothing more than losing systems in the long run. BTW I've been winning agians't six deck shoes, that should say something here.

    One extremely effective method that I employed two days ago was this. I was playing in the beggining of a six deck shoe. The count was rising and my bet was growing although I losed four hands in a row (pretending to be angry, the count was 25 and less than half a deck was played!) I jumped my bet up. Right there I continously won throughout that entire shoe.

    It was amazing how for a long time I believed counting was beyond me. It just goes to show that you can accomplish anything if you put your mind to it.
  • I would add that a "progression" is actually a good idea in counting. IE if you bounce your bet from $5 to $60 in one increment, that will generate some attention. And once you get attention, heat is sure to follow.

    Yes, a progression has some problems with counting. IE you want to "progress" your bet upward over multiple hands, but the count often changes quickly, particularly in single-deck. By the time you get your big bet out, you might have missed the key hands where the count was up and it quickly drops back so that you might not even get your big bet out. I personally use a "double" type of progression. I win or lose and the count goes up, I parlay my bet if I win or double if I lost and I look like one of the "progressive bettor crowd". In 6-deck this works well. In SD the count is so volatile that it doesn't. But then again, I haven't found a decent single-deck game in 3+ years so it is moot. At 6 deck this progressive approach works well and really does avoid much of the heat going from 1 to 12 would probably produce.

    Note that I do not believe in "progressions" in general, so don't hijack my comments into that pit. :)

    --You are either a counter, or a gambler, but not both.

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