If you want to play by the count at least bet 100:1 spread
  • Have a bankroll that can take up $100 chip action, but start playing at $5 table. You play a betting progression system of sorts, which involve betting with red chips while card counting is negative. When is time to bet $25 or more you play your progression with green chips. If the count tells you to bet black chips play your progression in black as long as the count is positive. Your green/black chip progression will be only on plus counts, with an end result of getting down a 100:1 spread.

    Using this method, your getting the absolute most for your gaming dollar. It extends your playing time, and gives you LOTS of opportunities to hit streaks while counting. Because you're always maximizing your wins, there are times when you can go from a total bankroll of $1000 all the way to $10,000 in couple hours of play.
  • Alex...

    Your math is bad.

    I count all the time. If I can play a $5 table with 6 decks, I usually try to spread 12:1. That means my bet varies from 5 to 60 dollars, period. Of course on selected hands it can be up to 8x that when you split 3 more hands and then double each one. But that is rare.

    Nobody spreads 1-100. You will get tossed out of a fifty-cent minimum game spreading like that. And in your example, 5 to 100 is not 100:1 spreading. It is only 20:1 and it is risky beyond belief. And not to mention expensive unless you have a _big_ bankroll.

    Yes a 100:1 spread would certainly win some money. But it won't do anything for longevity when you get backed off or barred.

    I'm not sure what you are looking for here. A troll response or what?

    What intelligent counters do is to determine the necessary spread to produce an advantage in a game with particular specs (6d, when can you double, what can you split, etc) and then they work to produce that spread without arousing the pit critters. There are two aspects, spreading as required to win at a particular game, while not getting barred in the process. 100:1 is simply NFG...
  • Doc, it's futile. We just ignore him.
  • I've begun to notice that. :)
  • Dr HiLo said:
    Alex...

    Your math is bad.

    I count all the time. If I can play a $5 table with 6 decks, I usually try to spread 12:1. That means my bet varies from 5 to 60 dollars, period. Of course on selected hands it can be up to 8x that when you split 3 more hands and then double each one. But that is rare.

    Nobody spreads 1-100. You will get tossed out of a fifty-cent minimum game spreading like that. And in your example, 5 to 100 is not 100:1 spreading. It is only 20:1 and it is risky beyond belief. And not to mention expensive unless you have a _big_ bankroll.

    Yes a 100:1 spread would certainly win some money. But it won't do anything for longevity when you get backed off or barred.

    I'm not sure what you are looking for here. A troll response or what?

    What intelligent counters do is to determine the necessary spread to produce an advantage in a game with particular specs (6d, when can you double, what can you split, etc) and then they work to produce that spread without arousing the pit critters. There are two aspects, spreading as required to win at a particular game, while not getting barred in the process. 100:1 is simply NFG...

    You are wrong,
    When you progress using $100 chips you will obviously be going from 100 to at leat 500. So, how much is the initial spread? - How about 100:1
  • A 5.00 table and 100:1 spread, thanks for the laugh.
    Can you imagine how that would make the average 5.00 player at that table feel to see you increase you action like that, or even the average 5.00 table dealer, for that matter, would totally freak out.

    (I'd pay to see that)

    :lol:

    mh
  • The dealer would probably not "freak out". The pit boss is another story however. He'd probably say "get lost".

    even 20:1 is not easy although I once watched a guy get away with it somehow at a 100 min table. 100:1 is just going to ask to get nuked after 1-2 such bets.

    For Alex:

    no one "progresses" when counting. They vary their bets according to the true count, their bankroll, using the Kelly Criterion to size the big bet to avoid quick ruin.

    If you want to talk about counting, please think like a counter rather than making the rules up as you go along...
  • IMHO if you spread 1 to d, where d = # of decks, you should still have an advantage. Parlaying 1,2,4,8 is probably the best way to approach the wagering. I don't bet more than 8 units, even though in the late 80's - early 90's I could bet an occasional 12 or 16 when 'hot'. It gets warm these days bumping past 8x or d.
  • I use two methods to get a reasonable spread.

    1. buy an extra hand and play two. This gets 50% more money out without 50% more "spread".

    2. Have a "big player" watch and jump in when my bet increases significantly. A bit more risky obviously. But we've worked on it and we don't go crazy. Of course this doesn't fly at 2d where there is entry until the shuffle usually, and even on some 6d games they don't allow mid-shoe entry.

    However, back to spreading. On a 5$ table, which is what I play when I can, 5-60 is doable. I avoid leaving on minus counts as you lose your seat pretty well permanently at popular casinos where there are plenty of players waiting to get in. Playing a whole shoe almost makes it necessary to spread 1-12 to get any sort of advantage. If you have lots of tables, partially full, "wonging around" can greatly reduce the needed spread of course...
  • alex just likes to "trip us all out" end of story!
    i strongly suspect he's bughousemaster in disguise.
    anyway-sometimes when the board gets real slow it's fun to have him come on with his craziness.
    prog
  • I must admit your "bughousemaster" theory is pretty plausible. :)

    On a different note, what would be interesting, and I might try to do this, would be to create a "master table" that tells what spread is necessary, depending on what your playing options are (IE can you "Wong out" when the count goes bad? If so, what spread do you need if you leave at -1? at -2? Can you "Wong in?" (IE can you usually find an empty spot at a table that meets your min bet requirements and which has decent rules (say H17 or S17 among others?)

    My major problem is that most of my trips (except for maybe 1-2 trips to Vegas a year) are weekend affairs due to my regular job. Playing on weekends on the MS coast means pretty much that "wonging" can't be done. I've been down a couple of times here and there during the week, and those trips can be pretty profitable as you can wong in and wong out whenever you want (within reason of course, but not limited by anything other than trying to avoid red flags to the pit critters). I have, on several occasions, let my wife play at a $10 table with me behind her (with seats open at the table) and watch her play BS at $10 flat-betting. Meanwhile back at the counting ranch, when the count gets to +4 I might say something like "Jeez, I'm tired of watching, think I'll play a few hands instead of watching." But of course I will play well _over_ the table minimum. When the count drops, I make a men's room and "drinks" run, then come back and watch. Of course I won't do this with the same dealer or same pit more than a couple of times. There are limits. :) And while the PCs are often obnoxious, they are not always stupid... :)

    On my normal trips, I really do need the 1-12 spread because I simply can't get up on a -1 TC, because if I do, I might not get back in for a long while. This is one reason I tend to play at the IP in Biloxi. It doesn't seem to get nearly as crowded as the Beau or Grand.
  • Is there method to your madness? It's not uncommon to see large
    bet spreads at any table. Example: 1:40 or 1:60 happens all the time,
    but there is seldom any method to this madness. Can you get away
    with this as a progression player? Yes, to some extent, but eventually
    the man upstairs will understand and that will be the end of that. Best
    to move around a lot, provided you have the tools.........Ray
  • I haven't personally seen 1-60 spreads. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. At a $100 table in Vegas I played at, the max was $5000 (in fact, I think most every table on the strip I played at had a max of $5000. From min=5$ to min=100$) so 1-60 would not be possible there. I have personally gotten heat spreading 1-6 on a SD or 2D table. Even 1-4 brings close scrutiny at times. 1-60 would likely bring the executioner.


    However, I think the bet spread is just the first-level "alarm" to the pit. Then they watch to see when/why you spread your bet. If you are just a progressive player, they will pick up on that quickly and ignore you, since it can't win. If your bet spreads swing with the count, that's another issue. Seems to be the target for the MindPlay software to catch that too, based on some screen shots posted either here are on bj21...

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