Free Blackjack Simulator
  • Does anyone know of a good blackjack simulator that is free?

    I recently purchased the KO Trainer software and it is so full of bugs that I don't trust the results. It is good at training but its simulation is completely junk. I contacted the software vendor directly and I contacted the KO website and never received a reply. So I definitely do not recommend this software!

    I've looked at the demo versions of SAGE and Casino Verite but the full versions are rather pricey for someone who is only casually interested. I'd have to play 100s of hours of Ace-5 at $5 to ever earn enough to pay for testing software so it isn't really worth it. I'm already out the money for a few books and not to mention the $ it cost me to get basic strategy down!

    Cheapskate
  • I was kind of wondering about this. I actually need an online simulator as I have NO more room on my computer! :) I've been using the one at iwon.com. Does anyone know if that simulates real play? I know I have lost plenty on it, unlike some of the free online casino ones that I swear let you win so you will try it for real money. :wink:
  • I've been using this strategy trainer.
    You can set it to match your table play (2-8 decks).

    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bst/
  • cobbcountywaterboyk, thank you! That one works and is online completely. :)
  • games.yahoo.com is good practice.

    Free money, they have any amount of decks that you want, and you can make a private table, or play with others.
  • 1. Do _not_ play the online (freebie) casino games, and draw conclusions. They certainly let you win (the decks have more 10's than normal or fewer small cards than normal) to lull you into "hey, I can break the bank." Once you get into the real game, if it is fair you will lose, if it is not fair you will lose quicker. Don't play.

    2. Casino Verite is the way to go. But more importantly, using an A-5 counting system is pretty weak for attacking today's shoe games. CV will help you learn any counting system you want as it has them all built in, I use Hi-Lo and it works well enough for me... and CV provides realistic play, with realistic speed, and keeps up with your play hand by hand, session-by-session, etc, so that you can see how you are doing. It also offers lots of BS and counting drills to improve your speed and accuracy.

    I think it goes for about $95 or something similar. Would make a good Christmas present, just hint to the right person. :)
  • Skunk said:
    Does anyone know of a good blackjack simulator that is free?

    I recently purchased the KO Trainer software and it is so full of bugs that I don't trust the results. It is good at training but its simulation is completely junk. I contacted the software vendor directly and I contacted the KO website and never received a reply. So I definitely do not recommend this software!

    I've looked at the demo versions of SAGE and Casino Verite but the full versions are rather pricey for someone who is only casually interested. I'd have to play 100s of hours of Ace-5 at $5 to ever earn enough to pay for testing software so it isn't really worth it. I'm already out the money for a few books and not to mention the $ it cost me to get basic strategy down!

    Cheapskate


    Not that I’m saying CV is not worth the price but you really don’t need any software to learn BJ. A simple deck of cards will do it. Basic strategy and playing index is not a big deal. What you need is casino experience of years and years on top of more years to beat this game. You can play on CV as much as you want but there is no substitute for real playing experience. It took me couple years or more by the time I was able to win in this game. The massive data from CV/CV Data/CVCX is useless if you do not have heavy real live playing experience.

    You cannot learn driving a truck by reading books about and driving on a simulator. Can you? – Off course not!
  • Alex played blackjack with Ken Uston!
  • Thank you Alex!

    I thought that I could learn BS and at least break even in Biloxi last week. I found out in a hurry that I was wrong. I am still using the tutorials and now realize how important experience is.
  • BruceinGa said:
    Thank you Alex!

    I thought that I could learn BS and at least break even in Biloxi last week. I found out in a hurry that I was wrong. I am still using the tutorials and now realize how important experience is.


    This is a true story,
    Years ago, more precisely about 30 years ago or so when I first got involved with BJ and card counting, I was only 18. Lawrence Revere was my first mentor before I got involved with Kenny. Believe it or not, I still have my first leather jacket that I was wearing when I was 18 and start playing blackjack. I wear that jacket until I was able to handle the game on my own betting black chips. It took me about 10 years to come to beat the game constantly. It took me 10 years to keep myself sentimentally unattached to the color of the chips. In the very beginning I was not able to play with green or black chips at all regardless of the bankroll. That leather jacket was a US Air Force type that I got it in a Army Navy store in LA. It got so wear out from rubbing it against BJ tables all over Vegas that I looked like a rug.

    Well, that was my metering device that I keep telling people that it takes years on top of more years at the tables and it takes a player to lose a lot of money by the time he can play the game fluidly without any emotion attached to it. Only then one can beat the game consistently. There is no other way around.

    I never paid much attention to the massive data from CVCX or any other software program. The basics that I learned from LR or Kenny were related to bet sizing in relationship to advantage. The basic line is this: You have 100 units bank and bet 75% or your advantage at all times if you want to have maximum growth rate but this will create big fluctuations and a big risk of ruin.
    A better way is to have a 400 unit bank and bet (TC-1) * unit. That has been my betting for the last 20 years.
  • Alex- What you say about the money problem is, I believe, the
    single biggest problem that most players have. A nickel is just
    another nickel red, green, or black makes no difference in how
    you should play the game. How many post on this forum are
    driven directly or indirectly by money?
  • Can we remain on the _same_ page?

    You have _repeatedly_ said "counting doesn't work. My progression betting system is the only way to beat the house."

    Now you return and say use the TC for betting.

    It can't be both ways.

    Also, while you can't learn to drive the truck from a book, if you jump in the truck and start from scratch, chances are far greater that you won't survive the experience, than you will make it across the country. _both_ approaches are needed. Drills to get BS down cold, drills to get counting down cold, drills to get BS deviations down cold, drills to get betting down cold, and then casinos to get the ambience under control...

    CV blackjack is but one program they sell. It can't be beat for learning how to count, learning the indices, and practicing them until you can do them blindfolded. Errors in a casino are expensive. Errors with CV blackjack are completely free. I'll take free...
  • hello all,

    i've got to be the most inexperienced person posting here... i've only been studying bj for 3 months now and have only one casino trip under my belt.

    Alex30D made the statement "...I keep telling people that it takes years on top of more years at the tables and it takes a player to lose a lot of money by the time he can play the game fluidly without any emotion attached to it. Only then one can beat the game consistently. There is no other way around. "

    the idea of playing devoid of emotion has been one of the most striking insights i've had during my three months of practice and the one session that i've played for real. ie. it is apparent that one just has to let the numbers play out and not worry about loss's or over rejoice about wins lest one becomes influenced by those emotions when it comes time to make playing decisions and or carrying on ones train of thought with respect to the count.

    regards, sagefr0g
  • gorilla player:

    It is weak compared to hi/lo but still has a player advantage. Its not a true count, but running count only. Its not professional but recreational. Its also rather stealthy. If you've simmed this, there ARE some pratfalls to avoid in CVBJ. PM me if you have questions about it.

    What kind of Player Advantage (if any) did you get? It should be about 0.25% for 6D DOA DAS LS.
  • Hello,

    Im using a deepnet software bJ counter/expert/mentor cause I am also new player practiciing Red7 . this my first time to play the black jack game . If you want i will sent to you. My interest is baccarat cause it simple to play but i always a loser maybe I will try your technique which i got from here.

    thank you , hope you dont be angry to me because Im new and not professional


    banlot
  • I've never run that thru my cvcx program since I don't use it. .25% is very low. IE if you are betting $100 chips, heads-up at 100 rounds per hour, that is $10,000 action times your advantage produces $25 per hour, which while not bad is not a lot for that kind of betting. And the variance is going to be _way_ up there, meaning huge swings in BR...

    A reasonable counting system ought to win 2 small bets per hour at a minimum, most will do better. At $100 per bet, you ought to make at least $200 per hour, obviously depending on the game/rules you have to work with... Most assume winning 2 big bets an hour, so your actual income depends a lot on how you spread of course (what you can get away with or what you can afford to keep ROR acceptable).
  • Considering that hi/lo is +0.85% under the same conditions, its not as bad as you might think. Also variance is 1.306 for Ace-5 the same as Basic.... because it is basic. The variance for hi/lo under the same conditions as the same as BS or A5 since the BS chart is used. It really boils down to when one varies the bet. H/L will bet 2+ units 22% of the time... A5 is 27%. Both will play to a TC of -1. (for A5 this will amount to a running score of -6 at the start of play and increment +1 as each deck is removed). The big difference is that when H/L recommends a bet of more than 1 unit, the outcome is more certain than with A5.

    That is reflected in the SD of the A5 method which is 31.5 units per sd per 100 hands. For Kelley risk one brings 47 units. The win corellates to 0.43 units per hr., for a $100 base thats $43 per hr playing only 79 hands of 100. The figure per 100 hands is 0.545 units or $54.50 per 100 hands played. Based on these figures QUADRUPLE this win for H/L.
  • Nickles:

    I was going to run this on CVCX to see what it would come up with, but it doesn't appear to have a simple A-5 count system. I remember seeing this a long while back, and assume A=-1, 5=+1 for counting? In addition, are there any other tricks you'd like included? IE are there any BS indices that are used? Finally, tell me the specific rules you want for the game, you mentioned DAS and LS, but what about RSA, and most importantly, # of decks and penetration?

    I'll be happy to run it and report the EV or even average win per hour if you give me a specific bet spread and basic betting unit as well...

    GP
  • I'm implementing A5 pretty well as it is really easy to keep the count. I can drink beer and talk to the table and don't even need to practice before visiting a casino. I even have been known to keep the count by stacking my chips according to the count so I don't have to keep any numbers in my head (I'm not stupid... just lazy and I'm such low stakes I'm sure the pit doesn't even pay any attention to me). I've run a sim with CVCX and an advantage can be gained by betting x2 at +2, x4 at +4, x8 >+5 in a 6 deck game. I play 6deck, h17, late surrender, DA2, DAS, no resplit aces, split to 4 hands, no hole card but lose only original bets and busts and I'm too chicken to bet x8 ever so I've been betting $5 when the count is <+3, $6 at +3, then I split to two hands of $10 at +4 or above. If it is near the end of the shoe I bet two hands of $15 at +4 or above. I have had success winning 5 out of 6 of my recent sessions. I believe that even with the A5 I'm at a slight disadvantage with 1-8 spread against H17 but if you walk away at all -4 counts I think a slight advantage can be attained.<br />
    I'm curious about what advantage could be gained by adding index numbers (perhaps Nickels can help with this).

    I assume that it would be wise not to hit 16 at +counts and maybe there are some others. Since my game doesn't have a hole card there might be some advantage when the count is negative when facing a dealer ten since it will be less likely that the dealer will have a blackjack. For example, I could maybe double Ten verses a dealer ten when the count is negative since I'll only lose my original bet if dealer does have BJ and it is less likely that he does since the deck is depleated of aces.

    I'm just purchased CVCX so i'm going to mess around with it and see if I can "develop" some more reliable index numbers rather than just speculating.

    There is a nice article on the A5 at www.gamemasteronline.com. Check out his article titled A-5 Count Revisited.
  • I don't think you have enough info for BS deviations. IE not hitting a 16 at + counts makes no sense if the only two cards you are tracking are 5's and aces I'd suspect. at + counts you are 5 shy which will hurt a 16, but at any other count you could be 10-rich which will kill a 16 even more...

    Might be the A-5 counting doesn't mix very well with indices for BS deviations. However, since I only speak from reasonable experience with Hi-Lo, take the above with a chunk of salt. As always, YMMV...

    If you want to play with min spread, wonging in/out is the only solution, as the times where you have any significant advantage are pretty infrequent, and you have to spread when you have an advantage to offset all those hands where you don't... In theory you can avoid spreading at all, just wong in at +2 and out at 0 or below. :) If you only play when you have an advantage, you have to win over the long haul. How much is another question of course.

    IE I just recently worked my tail off at a 6d game and made a grand total of $18 after 1.5 hours of spreading 5-100, although I only reached 100 maybe once... Seemed like a lot of work for piddling change when two months ago I racked up $9500 at a $25 2d game in around 2 hours of playing (best ever result, so don't think that is a weekly thing :) ) However, as I told my wife, $4750 per hour is not a bad wage. :) But $12 sort of sucks... I can also mention lots of "negative" hourly wages thanks to the incredible variance this stupid game provides. :)
  • The standard condition I use for the A5 method are fairly simple. But you must have CVData to run sims...

    # of Decks = 6
    Penetration = 75%
    Ace = -1, Five = +1
    Running Count ONLY: no true count.
    Start at -2
    Do NOT PLAY at -7

    Use ADVANCED WAGER scheme

    Bet 1 less than ZERO
    Bet 2 at ZERO
    Bet 4 at +1
    Bet 6 at +2
    Bet 8 at +3 or more

    Chart Modifications http://www.ace-five.com/ct21big.gif
    Hand Composition:
    Dealer = X Player A,6,9 = -1
    Dealer = X Player 2.6,8 = -1
    Dealer = X Player 3,6,7 = -1

    There are Two optional plays for Hand composition
    1) Set 8-8 vs X to Split less than +1 and to Surrender at +1 or more
    2) Dealer = 4 Player 2,X = -2

    For the Advanced Betting scheme:

    BETS
    reset after shuffle
    running count

    SIT OUT
    shuffle
    -7

    LAST HAND
    lost , last hand status
    lost , last hand status
    lost , lost
    lost , lost

    Stand Soft 17, DOA, DAS, LS
    pairs split to 4 hands except Aces... they split once and get 1 card only.
    Dealer Peeks on 10's and Aces
    No bonuses or specials, BJ pays 15 for 10
    Remove seat effect
    Suggest 500 million rounds sims for openers

    And as always, click on the www link below the post for more info.
  • got it running on CVCX. Why did you say "CV data only"? IE entering your A5 strategy was simple, along with the few indices you provided and the ones from the link you gave...

    I'll report later on the results as it will take a while to run...
  • You will get a good thumbnail of what A5 does with CVCX, but those few exceptions to BS are the result of CVData. CVCX might show an erroneously low % Player Advantage. By running a sim in CVData, the full complement of options to bet and play are used. As described, CVData shows 0.248% Player Advantage. 6-7-8 Blackjack, without the hand composition changes, and seat effect, will show about 0.245%, but with more variation due to the seat effect.
  • CVCX allowed me to enter all your BS deviations, surrender indices, although you didn't mention insurance (and I assume A5 is no good for insurance anyway). The only thing I could not set was your particular betting schedule, but the problem I saw was that with a $5 unit, spreading 1-8 optimally, the EV was something like $1.50 per hour... Your betting ramp should drop that somewhat although how much I have no idea. I will try to run it again, as the custodial people generally decide to scrub the ceramic tile floors the last week of classes (final exams) and every damned time they plug it in outside my office, my computer goes down because it is a dual xeon box with 8 15K RPM SCSI drives (about 1/2 terabyte of data) and it requires a fair amount of power. Enough that between it and this gorilla-type tile scrubbing behemoth, the circuit breaker trips and I get to re-boot, which takes a long while... So no saved data unfortunately. Was running under linux using vmware, and windows XP pro didn't take well to the power failure...
  • You set the betting ramp after the sim is run, and the tracking index as well. My informal 500Meg run last nite indicates the proper 0.25% using CVCX.

    Simple home box here AMD Xp3200+, 1 Gig DDR400, 8x AGP (MX4000 64Mb). Decent # cruncher for the $500 to build it myself. (Re: I put it together, it was not pre-configured)

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