table position
  • Hello all. I've been reading posts here for the past two weeks, and therefore trying to improve my play also. Is there a preferred position to play from at a multiplayer table, or is one as good as another? I know other players tend to scrutinize the final player's (third base?) choices more than others, but wouldn't everyone benefit from someone who uses proper BS setting there? Just some idle thoughts. Any imput would be appreciated. Good luck at the tables everyone.
  • dcagle - First of all, welcome to the Forum......You will probably get a lot of answers/responses to your question with reasons and rhetoric, so let me give you the "bottom line" right off the bat.....It makes no difference whatsoever where you sit at the table.

    Regards....Grifter
  • dcagle, welcome, I am also relatively new here.
    Grifter, did your answer just apply to BS players? I would think that if you were a counter you would like to see as many card as possible before you played. Am I wrong about this and counters only use the count for bets?
  • Bruce - I am, and it doesn't matter where you sit....Many reasons, here's a couple quick one's......First base you have the advantage of an accurate count before you make your bet. Third base you have the advantage of more cards before you make your play. Middle you have a little of both. That's oversimplifed, but it really makes no difference.

    Counting or not......Sit where you feel the most comfortable with.

    Regards....Grifter
  • If you are purely a BS player, 3rd base is not bad. It keeps the howls of displeasure for all the ploppies that think that 3rd base influences the game and bad decisions hurt them. It's nonsense, but nonetheless it can make the game more pleasant if 3rd base plays correct BS. Of course, mis-hits/mis-stands at other places will _still_ cause acidic comments. :)

    As a counter I dislike 3rd base, as on occasion the TC will direct you to play something contrary to BS. And when you hit a 12 vs dealer 4-up, and you draw a 10, and the dealer turns over a 10 and then draws a 5, you can expect some grief. _lots_ of grief. :)

    From a win/lose point of view, there's no advantage. As Grifter said, 3rd base lets you make a better decision, although I think this effect is more pronounced on SD or 2D games. 1st base gives you the best info to place a bet. I generally sit in the middle, makes it easy to follow everything naturally and I don't need binocs to see from 3rd base to 1st to see what he got, particularly in a hand-held game.
  • Thanks for the comments everyone. I was playing in third base position yesterday and felt pressured by rest of table not to hit my 12 when dealer was showing a two. I felt the peer pressure was compromising proper BS. I wanted to tell the other players that I had been at the table much longer than any of them and still had a larger percentage of my buy in, but opted in the end to just smile and keep my mouth shut. :wink: Perhaps now I can feel good about sitting at any of the other open positions.

    As an aside, I would like to give a testimonial that I have played twice since adopting BS strategy learned from this site and the results have been most positive. I have been able to play longer and have a better time, and even take home a few extra dollars. :D
  • Yeah third base is absolutely murder at the casinos here that I play at you will get the guy who know every thing that sits there and will spend about 2 mins deliberating :? ... looking around the other players cards as to how many 10's are out.. hums and haws :roll: I play perfect bs get the shakes of the head.....get real ugly looks... get the usual comments aaawww you took the dealers 10 .... he would have busted if you had stood, you get the feeling your the spokes man for the "Team " against the dealer and what ever you do your move is closly scrutinized and you can never seem to please every body, you can win but nearly every body elses loses or you lose and nearly every body elses wins, what ever you do you never seem to be most popular guy at the table :lol:
  • below is an abstract from an arivix org article....
    i can get the url if anyone is interested, the article is rather complex:

    The standard deviation effect
    (or why one should sit first base playing blackjack)
    E. Mu˜noz-Garc´ıa ∗, R. P´erez-Marco*
    Abstract. For a balanced cardcounting system we study the random variable of the true count after a number of cards are removed from the remaining deck and we prove a lose formula for its standard deviation. As expected, the formula shows that the standard deviation increases with the number of cards removed. This creates a ”standard deviation
    effect” with a two fold consequence: longer long run and presumably larger fluctuations of the bankroll, but a small gain in playing accuracy for the player sitting third base. The opposite happens for the player sitting first base. Thus the optimal position in casino blackjack in terms of shorter long run is first base.
    Mathematics Subject Classification 2000 : 91A60, 05A19, 60C05
  • Grifter..

    You forgot one important detail. :) If you sit at 3rd base, you can drive an obnoxious ploppy to suicide by splitting 10's, hitting 12 vs 4, etc. :)
  • Gorilla - Good point, and I've sure p.o'd plenty of them over the years 'cause I prefer third base just because I'm more comfortable there.

    .....speaking of ploppies: Why do most of them wear ugly shirts and twenty pounds of jewelry?? (Gorillas excluded of course. They aren't generally known as 'snappy' dressers). :wink:

    Grif'
  • good question grift... Don't forget that they also tend to drink too much, which seems to loosen their mouths more than necessary, making them worse...

    Here's a good horror story for a counter, but in the end it was actually priceless because of the "expert at 3rd base" just about having a stroke...

    was playing at a 2d game with 4 players counting myself. We were getting nearly 75% pen, and as we played the second first round, the RC was in the tank. My wife walked up so I asked the dealer "OK to sit out a hand?" He saw my wife and said "sure". (rare to get to wong out for a single hand on a 2d game with no mid-shuffle entry). I watched as we talked and an incredible number of low cards came out, the first deck mark, the running count was something like +16 for the next hand which was at about the half-way point, one deck down in the discard tray. I got two 10's, guy next to me did also, as did the next person. Ploppy on 3rd got a 6 and 5 (note, this was hand-held so I only learned all of this after the fact. With the TC up there, the dealer casually asked "going to split 'em" knowing I had had a few things to say with the ploppy on the end. That was all the opening I needed. Split them, got another 10, split, got another 10, then got 3 10s and a 9 on top of 'em, 3 20's, 1 19. Of course RC was down from 16 to 9. Guy next to me turned over two 10's and said "split 'em." Got a 10 (didn't re-split) on each. RC now down to 5. bit the TC was at 10 so no problem. Next guy flips over his two cards (you guessed it, 10's) and split them. Got an A and the second card was a 10. Rc down to 1 and this is a bit worrisom as the dealer has a 6 up and really needs to break, although my 20's look pretty good. Now for the good part, remembering that the last card dealt was a 10, the ploppy throws down his two cards and doubles and gets 2, for 13. Dealer turns over a 5 to go with the 6, but now the TC is neutral, he draws a 9, for 20. Ploppy absolutely explodes. He lost his double. I pushed 3 and lost 1.

    I made a mental note that that must have been some sort of record. Ploppy picked up his three cards, threw 'em into the pit, grabbed up his few remaining chips and stormed off, cursing.

    I don't know if the guys next to me were counting or not, but we looked at each other, and laughter exploded, including the dealer. Never thought the TC would drop from +16 to zero that quickly. As I said a nightmare round, but we played another hour with no constant nagging from 3rd base. Was _really_ nice to see the guy before 3rd base draw that 10 to give 3rd base a 2. :)

    Of course if one had not split, and the dealer drew that 10, I would have lost four big bets rather than just one...

    BTW this was a Vegas trip months back, and our dealer liked to "fake us" when peeking for 21, by starting to flip over the other card, then balking. The ploppy wasn't amused and was giving him grief about him having his bit of fun at the table... First couple of times, dealer acted like he had 21 and started to flip the card, the ploppy tossed his two cards in, then the dealer said "no blackjack" and the ploppy started complaining... "Now you made me show everyone my cards." As if that mattered one bit. :)
  • Excellant Post Gorilla player :lol: :D love to hear your war storys
  • as the saying goes, "truth is stranger than fiction". I've been playing seriously for about 4 years. I suspect grifter could keep us rolling for weeks, since the number of "incidents" I've been involved in seems to be fairly significant after only four years. He's been counting and playing since right before dirt was discovered, so I suspect he has a lot to tell the grandkids. :)

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