KISS III Count with 6 Deck Shoe
  • I have been practicing the KISS III Count @ home with my 6 deck shoe.... Following what the BlueBook II says I start out with a running count of +9 waiting till I get to a count of +20 before increasing units bet...

    However I have found that the shoe does not reach the +20 count all that often before reaching the end of the shoe... Has anyone else experienced this same results? I am playing with about 65 - 75% pen..

    I just played a shoe and it took about 30 hands to reach the +20 count, but at that point it was too late because it was past the 65-75pen zone..

    Any suggestions or info?? Should I make any modifications to the count?


  • when you are playing, it sounds like you are playing on your computer, correct? If so, 30 rounds from a 6d shoe sounds low. I typically see about 15 rounds from a 75-80% pen DD game (heads up).

    also, in 6d shoes, 7 out of 10 are not going to have + counts anyway. That's the problem with 6-8d shoes. Not to mention the variance since the good cards will come out, but over a longer span, where more of your big bets get beaten.
  • Stainless,

    Im playing with 6 Decks not on the computer.... playing Heads Up.. I agree I have seen more of my big bets beaten even with the count in my favor..

    Have you found one count to work better over another with 6-8d shoes? ie. KO, Hi-Lo etc??


  • "Have you found one count to work better over another with 6-8d shoes? ie. KO, Hi-Lo etc?? "

    yes and no. Yes, in the I use Hi-Lo on 6D shoes and it works. no because I have not tried any other counting system since I started. In a 6D game, getting the big bet out when you have an advantage is the name of the game. Playing efficiency is not that important in a deep shoe game.

    I chose Hi-Lo when I started for a couple of reasons.

    (1) it seemed simple enough and managable enough to master, and it seemed to be good enough to beat any type of game from 1D to 6D. Sometimes I play weekly, sometimes monthly, and sometimes the gap is even wider. I was worried that a more effective count would be harder to handle without lots of practice.

    (2) I can use it without making errors. The counting is easy (I find) and after I found CVBJ a few months back it has become far easier. If you use this program, counting down a deck becomes child's play. I looked at KO/KO-rookie when starting, but a few friends (that live on the MS coast) used Hi-Lo and I thought that since more use Hi-Lo, that it was for a reason. Also I didn't like the unbalanced count with a different IRC for each number of decks, seemed like a good way to make a critical error here and there.

    (3) lots of free info on Hi-Lo and if you ever get into team play, its popularity will probably mean you don't have to learn a new counting system.

    I think you will find that most any of the counting systems around today will work just fine. Some are better than others, but the gap separating them is really not that large. If you want an explanation about playing efficiency of a counting system, just ask...

    So the bottom line is to pick something you can deal with and go. There is a lot more to learn than just how to count the cards, use cancellation to make it easier, etc. You actually have to play the game, keep the count, vary your bets, all without attracting undue attention. The less mental effort you spend on the counting process itself, the more attention you can spend on avoiding getting branded a counter...
  • Same unfortunate results here Jersey. Unfortunately, Detroit and Windsor only have a few 6 deck games and the rest are 8 deck. I wait and wait and wait for a shoe with a good count; and they are few and far between. It REALLY bothers me since my 1st trip to Vegas since I learned KISS III. Now I know how good it can be (i.e. 2 deck games). I have posted elsewhere that (at Grifter's suggestion) I begin at 39 and increase units at 50 to end my feeble brain's confusion between the count and my card totals.

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