Maximum you can win @ BJ w/o being TAXED
  • Is there some sort of limit that you can win at the tables before the casino begins TAXING you or penalyzing you for winning? How does taxing work at a casino? I heard it was something like $10,000+ then they start to tax you?

    Curiously,

    Liezel
  • hello?????????????????????????? no1 knows?
  • I don't believe table games are handled like that. But you might generate a CTR to the feds if you cash out $10K or more at once...
  • I dont understand what you're talking about. What is a "CTR" to the Feds? And my question was pertaining to being TAXED. :roll:
  • I have not yet had the opportunity to present $10K to a casino cashier, but, I have never heard of taxes being withheld! You are resposible to pay your own taxes. I do know about CTR's. Some casinos require you to fill out the report on winnings of $3,500 or more. You may want to check this out at the casino while you are there.
  • Technically, all gambling wins must be reported even if you win a meager 10$. But of course, nobody does that. However, casinos are required to report large transactions. In the case of slot machine wins (a typical large transaction), the casino will request your SSN before paying up (which is why one should bring an ID and make sure to play with a slot card).

    As for cashing smaller cheques, I think one can easily cash 1000$ in chips becasue that is a reasonable buy-in in many upscale properties. However, if you can actually win 10000$ in one day at (let's be over-optimistic) a 2% advantage, that would suggest a bankroll of half a mil which you are unlikely to be doing in cash anyway.

    In fact, I doubt even the best counters can get out with more than 1000$ on average with an amazingly good bankroll.
  • ok... still no one has mentioned what in the world a "CTR to the feds" is??!?!?!?! :roll:

    and also... so im guessing that there's no law in a casino that says if you win more then x amount they will start to tax you by asking for your SSN? im talking strictly about blackjack and care about nothing else. say i won $10000 if a casino would tax for winning that amount (that's not even including the amount you first exchanged for chips) then there's a simple solution to avoid the attention... just break it up and cash it several times (even at different locations and times!) to avoid the heat!

    do you agree?
  • Sorry...

    A CTR is a "Cash Transaction Report". It is something that a casino, bank, etc has to file when someone does something with more than $10,000. The purpose is to prevent "money laundering" by drug traffic folks.

    This is a fed requirement, and it requires a valid ID. The solution is to avoid dealing with large deposits/withdrawals of cash in a single "chunk" in a 24 hour period...

    Many places will file CTRs for even less money, and most will keep up with your activity to try to prevent "structuring" which is what happens when you win say $12000 at the table, and then cash out $4K at a time to avoid tripping the $10K CTR requirement...
  • I once played blackjack at the Borgata and won $12,000. didnt count cards at all, just played BS for about a 4 hour session at a $100 table. My bets ranged from $100 to $1000 per hand, at one point I was up as much as $14500 but gave some back at the end. I brought all $12000 in chips to the window and they paid me out in cash without any mention of taxes at all.
  • The IRS would have a hard time proving that you won 10-15K. Who is
    to say that you didn't lose 20K over the last few days at 4-5 casinos?
    Also, you are not making a dep or with'd, only an exchange.

    There is something about a 300 to 1 payout, but I don't rem the details.
    That could occur on slots, but not likey in blackjack or other table games.
  • Note that to be clear, a CTR has nothing to do with being taxed. It just informs the feds of a large cash transaction... I don't think you get taxed on anything except huge payouts as Ray mentioned, with the slots being at the head of the list along with Keno. But even on a table game with payouts of 1000:1 I have never seen anyone taxed yet I have seen at least one royal flush hit on a Carib stud game at the table next to my BJ table once...
  • oh really thenhow come they asked for my b/f's ssn after cashing a chocolate $5000 chip at mgm grand? he said he 4got it but why else would they ask his ssn if they weren't gonna tax him? messed up dont you think?

    so if someone tries to cash out $50,000 they wont tax? there's not ANY rule on being taxed at table games? again i dont care about slots just blackjack blackjack blackjack

    ~LieZeL :lol:
  • Ray said:
    The IRS would have a hard time proving that you won 10-15K.


    Nail on the head. If I remember right, from a book on casinos and IRS I read a few years ago (forget the title) that is exactly the reason. And the casinos instigated it. They won a lawsuit (in Vegas?) on the grounds that in the case of table games only, it was burdensome to acknowledge what a player bought in for at a particular table, and what he/she may have lost/won at a previous table. I remember researching this, and it cemented my belief to not use comp cards, or minimally at least.

    Interesting topic.
  • Liezel: I believe you have been misinformed. Casinos do not tax you….period! As someone posted above, taxes are between you and the IRS.
    - No, there is not any rule about being “taxed” at table games. Again, casinos do not tax you.
    - Casinos are not even required to track your play at table games. As JM2552 correctly pointed out, it has been determined by law that this would be a “burdensome task”; and therefore is not a casino’s obligation.
    - In regard to your b/f’s $5K chip, that would have been a function of the casino’s internal tracking and/or security procedures, and nothing to do with the IRS.

    Grifter
  • If you exchange 5-6 red chips..no chance that those are bogus chips.
    But, a 5k chip is reason to take security measures.....Logical???
  • Liezel:

    A CTR _requires_ your SSN. That is what the Feds use to track large cash transactions. If you start fricking around with $10K here, $10K there, all in cash, they are going to want to know what is going on. Not from a tax perspective, but from a potential drug money-laundering perspective. That's the purpose of the CTRs, not taxing...

    As I also said, some casinos track any large transaction internally, to make sure that you don't "structure" your transactions. That is, that you don't break a large cash transaction up into smaller transactions to avoid a CTR being filed. Many casinos will track arbitrary amounts so that they can comply and submit a CTR when you break $10K in a 24 hour period. If they didn't track the smaller amounts, and allowed the structured transactions to take place, they can be zapped by the Feds just as easily as you can be zapped...
  • Or come to the Great White North where windfalls are not taxable. You can win all you want, there are no taxes on casino or lottery wins.
  • ok so again why did they ask for his SSN? whats up with that only thing i know ssn is for is for taxing :)
  • Again, the SSN is _required_ on a CTR. That is how the feds track a particular large cash transaction to a particular person. SSN is not only for taxing. It is my employee ID for example where I work. It is my insurance ID when I use my medical insurance. It is the identifier for my personal retirement account. For Social Security. Medicare. Court records. Etc... It is the number used to isolate a particular person for one of many reasons, which might or might not include federal income tax...

    You can probably google "cash transaction report" and find out everything you need to know...
  • This link gives a little more info as to why table games are different.
    Why things happen like they do in any casino is usually understood
    with an application of good old common sense!!!

    http://www.markpilarski.com/column76.html
  • huh??? CTR??? what u mean i so confused!
  • despite a strong sense of deja vu, "CTR" = "Cash Transaction Report".

    A federal reporting requirement when a large chunk of cash is moved about... Has nothing to do with taxes or anything of the kind, has everything to do with tracking large cash transactions to pick up on drug-based money-laundering...
  • SSN - Methinks you are being trolled.
  • Grifter said:
    SSN - Methinks you are being trolled.


    Or "Bugged"
  • You got it Jimmy....this thread is now in the ridicuious zone....
  • From the United States Navy nuclear submarine Stainless Steel Rat (sorry Grifter, could _not_ resist) you may well be right.

    I tend to take people at face value and assume good motives. It isn't always the case of course... :)

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