Initial Buy In Requirement?
  • 6 deck games...

    I was usually buying in for $200 at a $10 table and $300 at a $15 table. This was when I played basic strategy and progressions.

    As an AP I am finding that when I need to put the big bets out I sometimes have to buy in for some green just to put out the big bet. This seems like a Red Flag to the pit to me.

    Should I just buy in bigger ($500) when I first sit down and maybe put out a 2 unit bet right away while the pit is watching?

    Chuck
  • Hi chuckn...
    fwiw :
    If I'm at a $5 minimum table, I buy in for $500...
    $1,000 at a $10 table, etc...
  • Don't do that. Nothing arouses the pit's suspicions quicker than a big buy in. At a $5 table, $100 is a good start. At a $10 table, $200 is also good. The casinos like to see you "going to your wallet" during a playing session. You are "chasing your losses" as far as they are concerned...
  • A good round number to use for buyin is 20 * Average bet. For example:
    At a $10 table using a 1-10 spread your average bet is going to be 2 units
    or $20. So, 20 *20=$400....200 for $5 tables, etc. These are nice small
    numbers and the pit want give a damn anyway.
  • Right.
    It would raise flags if someone bought in for $500, then started playing $5 minimum bets. At a $5 table I would buy in at $100 or less.
  • just don't do what I saw in Vegas last week. $5 table, idiot kept buying in for $20 at a time, slowing the game down significantly. :)
  • Lets get real here.....At 5-10 tables you will see all kinds of players.
    The one or two chip players and the gambler with a stack of green and
    red, just a bigger player.

    If you buy in at 100 and spread 1-10, you are looking for that elusive
    count. Any slow drain or a couple of split and double downers and you
    don't have enough money to bet with the count. Do you honestly think
    anything between 200 and 500 means anything at all to the pit.
  • Ray said:
    Lets get real here.....At 5-10 tables you will see all kinds of players.
    The one or two chip players and the gambler with a stack of green and
    red, just a bigger player.

    If you buy in at 100 and spread 1-10, you are looking for that elusive
    count. Any slow drain or a couple of split and double downers and you
    don't have enough money to bet with the count. Do you honestly think
    anything between 200 and 500 means anything at all to the pit.


    This is exactly what I see at the Indian tables here in CT. No $5 tables... mostly $15 and $25 with an occasional $10 table dealing 6 deck. We are talking the six deck shoes where there is always a wide array of things happening... mostly off the wall stuff with the ploppies, big betting Asian's, drunks, etc.

    Last week the count went high and I had to buy more just to put out the bet. So I buy another $200 at a $15 table and end up putting $150 right out on the spot after just placing a one unit bet on the previous hand.

    I felt like that was a red flag.

    How hard are they really watching the $10 and $15 6 deck tables when using a 1-10 spread? Should I even be concerned?
  • Where are you Grifter?

    By the way, Grifter plays DD and has for a long time................
  • Ray:

    Yes I do. I played at Pearl River a few months back. Bought in for min amounts a couple of times, no notice or anything. Bought in for $500 at a $5 min table, the pit boss was _constantly_ watching the game even though there were plenty of other tables in the same pit, all very busy.

    I casually asked the dealer about it when I saw him away from the pit, he replied "the pit always gets nervous when there is a big buy in for a specific table limit..." I simply filed that away and have not seen this again.

    Another data point. Long-time friend of mine is a surv. supervisor on the MS coast (I never play where he works for obvious reasons). He said that they look at players for one of two reasons. The first is a call from the pit, the second is a big stack of chips relative to the other players and the table min bet limit.

    Only two data points, but enough for me to remain cautious...
  • Ray - I agree 100% with both your "reality check" and your comments about a 40 unit buy-in.
    - At a $5 table, a $200 christmas tree buy-in is not going to attract attention anywhere. For Pete's sake, you only have 24 chips in front of you.
    - And as you say, a $200 buy-in gives you enough of a cushion to use your spread and/or play almost any progression if you are using one as cover.

    Grifter
  • But what about the original question? $500 buy-in on a $5 min table?
  • SSR - I'm with you there.........Too high, and will be noticed.......$200-$300 is no problem in my opinion and experience..........G.
  • stainless steel rat said:
    But what about the original question? $500 buy-in on a $5 min table?


    My original question and the thread starter was how about a $500 buy in at a $15 table?:D
  • Chuckn - IMHO, that would work just fine. $500 is a very common buy-in for green chippers, would not draw any special attention. For your $15 base bet, you could establish yourself with the pit by betting quarters for a few hands, then dropping back to your $15 level.

    Grifter
  • Common sense and street smarts go hand and hand, one and the same.
    Chuckn's common sense raised a flag and he was close to the right
    answer....nothing wrong with that.
  • Thanks To All :)

    This whole learning process has become a real challenge.:?

    Nobody said it would be easy (and it isn't). Six months ago I would have never thought I could ever have even sat down and known when I have the edge.

    Daily practice with CVBJ has really helped. Casino conditions are much harder but are becoming easier with each session. The most difficult part is keeping track of my hand total with those multi-hit soft hands along with the running count (KISS III).

    Chuckn
  • Keep practicing. I've played and practiced so much I simply know when to hit or stand without even knowing how I know my hand total. It is just like counting. Eventually you can look at two hands and just "know" +2...
  • Chuckn- You mentioned casino conditions and I think this is the most
    under talked about subject in BJ. Casino's can manage-out your ability to
    win and I'm not talking about bad rules. They do most of this damage
    with very good crowd control and table availability. If the casino can
    maintain full tables and only full tables, our goose is cooked in a bunch
    of different ways, shoe or pitch games. Frankly, I don't see any way
    around the problem and that may account for the fact that most writers
    don't spend time on the subject......Just some thoughts
  • Chuck, I have the same problem of keeping the count during soft or complicated hands. When I notice that I have one (i.e., split with double-down possibilities), I make a special note of the count BEFORE I start my hand, then I can catch up when I am done with my hand decisions.
  • Ray- The last session I played I got hammered even though the main dealer was only cutting off about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 decks where they normally cut off 2 decks. This is a 6 deck game S17, DOA, DAS, Resplit to 4, LS... pretty good rules. The ploppies came and went with and average of 4 or 5 at the table. Actually this was as about as good as I have seen during an evening shift in awhile. The problem was I could not catch a break... very few high counts and lost most hands when things were good including a split aces against a dealer 5 or 6 with a 8 unit bet out... I pulled something like another ace and a 6... lost both hands. The whole night was like this.

    As far as surrender goes I hear more complaints and catch more criticism from dealers and players alike.

    D - I try to store the count also. I need to come up with a mind trick to associate the count with something so I can retrieve it later.


    SSR - I practice a lot with CVBJ. I use the drills and play using KISS III. Sometimes I will start feeling like I am going brain dead as I reach the saturation point for a given practice session. Often when coming back the next day I will see an improvement. It works!!

    Chuckn

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