when u got many small cards until 16
  • will u stop or still hit it

    in the real casino , i think most people must stop it

    if u hit , they must say u crazy

    do u think u should still hit when u got

    2 2 2 2 3 3 3

    if u hit one six and got burst

    and finally the dealer become not burst due to your six , all ones must blame on u
  • Get Fred Renzey's book, "Blackjack Blue Book II" and read the chapter about cards exposed on the board. The number of "babies" sometimes determines if you should hit or stand.
  • 2222333=17, don't hit 17, if you are a B/S player hitting 16, multi card,
    depends on what those cards are. for example: 4,2,5,5 or 4,3,5,4, etc
    don't hit. The reason for that is a four or five is the best card that you
    can get with a 16 and some of those are in your hand. This fact
    reduces your possibilities. You will lose approx. 75 percent of the time
    with a 16, hit or stand, but every little bit of knowledge helps.

    Clear?
  • Furthermore, try this on for size: You're sitting at a full table with other
    players as so: To your left is a B/S player and at 3rd we have a CC.

    -you have 4,4,8 and stand due to the fours( via hand composition)
    -To your left is the basic player and he has 3,4,9 he hits because there
    is a large number of 10's showing (via board counting)

    - extreme left is the CC and he has 5,5 and doubles because, unknow to
    the board counter or the hand comp player the index justifies DD on
    10 vs 10.

    Who made the mistake or for that matter is it possible that all three
    players were correct?
  • beyond14 said:
    will u stop or still hit it

    in the real casino , i think most people must stop it

    if u hit , they must say u crazy

    do u think u should still hit when u got

    2 2 2 2 3 3 3

    if u hit one six and got burst

    and finally the dealer become not burst due to your six , all ones must blame on u


    That hand of 2222333 is a STAND. Even the 556 or 546 or 448 is a STAND. The BJ hands have expectation and they are what they are.
  • What's new Alex?
  • Ray said:
    Furthermore, try this on for size: You're sitting at a full table with other
    players as so: To your left is a B/S player and at 3rd we have a CC...


    Never play at a full table unless you want to lose money. If you're counting, and you play at a full table, your odds will decrease DRASTICALLY.
    Trust me, I've experienced this both in print and on a firsthand basis. If you're going to go count, go on an odd day like a tuesday early in the monring or very late at night, when your odds of playing with 1 or no other players is much better.
  • Well, yes don't play at a full table, even if your a B/S player. There is no
    advantage in losing at a slower pace. In the above example I needed a full table in-order have the possibility of enough 10's showing.
  • also note that if you play at a full table, as a card counter, your "odds" don't shrink. Your advantage does not shrink. The only thing that shrinks is the number of hands per hour, which makes the counter's win rate per hour drop...
  • If your going to Wong in and out your options are very limited because
    these are low limit tables. In that case, it is how you bet that makes a
    difference even when you have 5 players(that's my cut-off). You
    introduce the variance problem and in order to overcome same, you
    must be consistent. At best you may get in 30 hands an hour and sometimes a fraction of that.
  • This is a good question, but the example was for a 17 total.

    BUT, let's say you have a 16 total (against a dealers 2 thru 6)

    And, let's say its a 2, 3, 2, 3, 6 or 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2

    BS would clearly state this is a HIT.

    However, with so many low cards in a row should you really press your luck and HIT again?
    I'm sure you're gonna get criticism from other players, but I guess you're supposed to ignore that.
  • the answer is to learn to count cards. Just because you have a bunch of small cards, does not mean that there are now an abundance of big cards left to be dealt. Last round could have seen a bunch of big cards come out.
  • sorry i made a mistake

    the example should be 2 2 2 3 3 4 something like that
  • I agree that we shouldnt go on weeken sunday or any holiday peak hours


    i win 3500 US in week days last weak than finally i go on satuaday where all the table are nearly full , finally i lost 1400 us on that day :?

    i found all the players are not using our stragey , they always stand at 12-16 even the dealer got 7-A

    also they will blame on you when u still hitting at 14-16 while finally the dealer not burst card ,
  • ZMan said:

    ...BUT, let's say you have a 16 total (against a dealers 2 thru 6)

    And, let's say its a 2, 3, 2, 3, 6 or 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2

    BS would clearly state this is a HIT.

    ....


    OOPS, Change that to you have a 16 total against a dealer's 10
  • beyond14 said:
    I agree that we shouldnt go on weeken sunday or any holiday peak hours


    i win 3500 US in week days last weak than finally i go on satuaday where all the table are nearly full , finally i lost 1400 us on that day :?

    i found all the players are not using our stragey , they always stand at 12-16 even the dealer got 7-A

    also they will blame on you when u still hitting at 14-16 while finally the dealer not burst card ,
    Tell them to scoot on over to the gift shop and buy a clue. In this case, clues come in the form of strategy cards. Of course, the most hardcore of blackjacks idiots will maintain that the cards cannot possible be correct. Surely the casino wouldn't see something that would help the player win.
  • ZMan said:
    [quote=ZMan]
    ...BUT, let's say you have a 16 total (against a dealers 2 thru 6)

    And, let's say its a 2, 3, 2, 3, 6 or 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2

    BS would clearly state this is a HIT.

    ....


    OOPS, Change that to you have a 16 total against a dealer's 10[/quote]
    BS is a losing strategy. Play BS and you will be out of business in no time.
    Both plays (2, 3, 2, 3, 6 or 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2) are a stand. If you have a T6 or 97 you hit after the shuffle on your first hand.

    You should NOT be going gambling with what little money you have while playing BS only. You ought to have a healthy fear of losing, especially if you are going to play BS while turning the game of blackjack into a slow losing series. BS is turning blackjack into slow grinding slot machine with -0.5% return on your action.

    Any 16 of three or four cards with a 4 or 5 in it is a stand. Any 16 of five or more cards is a stand too unless the count is negative down the tube in which case you shouldn’t be in action.
  • so 16 is not a must hit card while dealer got 7-A

    so how about 15 , in any case should not hit as well??


    we should surrender 15 when dealer got 10
    but should we always hit 15 if we cant surrender
  • Don't hit 15 vs dealer 2,3,4,5,6, otherwise hit.
  • For basic strategy players:

    The first example 2,3,2,3,6 - Most of the time you should stand on this
    hand because your five small cards and the mix of other player cards
    will show an imbalance of small cards. (index for 16 vs 10=0)

    But, if 4 other players have 20's(2cds) + the dealer 10, the imbalance is in
    high cards and you should hit.

    The 2nd example is a stand most of the time because of the four
    and the probability that there is a small card imbalance as well. However,
    if the imbalance is in high cards you should hit.

    All of this is directed toward the limit of what a basic strategy player can
    know. You must play with what knowledge is available to you. It's the
    best that you can do. As you can see, nothing is always.................
  • can i say more simply


    if we hit 15 , dealer got 7- A , we must hit in all case


    if we hit 16 , for four or more cards in that hand , then if the table have more big cards then small cards , then we have to stand even the dealer got 7-A ,
  • I think this is getting mangled a bit.

    16 vs 10 is one hand where the hit/stand decision point is a TC of zero, which means it is a close call. But 16 vs 9, 16 vs 8, 16 vs 7 and 16 vs A are not "stand at 0" hands, which means hit 'em period. Now if you are in a SD game, there are some composition-dependent BS plays that are different from normal BS. But the rest of this is getting too mangled to make sense.

    For example, BS is to surrender 16 vs 9, 10 or A. But not against a 7 or 8. At higher counts, we also surrender 15 vs 9 or A (we surrender 15 vs 10 at TC=0 or higher). There are also indices for 14 vs 10, etc...

    Best bet is to follow BS when there is no counting BS departure index for a play. Of course if you have a min bet out, you can play strangely without hurting your EV too much, for cover. But at + counts, with big bets out, no need to get cute. Play by the count, or if you don't count, play by BS.
  • Yes and no.....the imbalance applies to 16 vs 10 and not 7,8,9,A. The
    reason for this is it is such a bad hand (lose 75%) and the index is 0.

    The index for 19 vs 9 in card counting is around +5 and higher for 16 v A.

    16 vs 7,8,9,A hit...there is no index for 7 and 8 that I know about.
  • just so you'll know:

    16 vs
    2 stand at -9
    3 stand at -11
    4 stand at -12
    5 stand at -13
    6 stand at -14
    7 stand at 9
    8 stand at 7
    9 stand at 5
    10 stand at 0
    A stand at 8

    There are a _bunch_ of indices for full hi-lo. :)
  • SSR- Mangled...not so.....you may not understand it, but mangled it is
    not. This guy is not a card counter. Talk to him in his language.
  • here's where I got lost:

    if we hit 15 , dealer got 7- A , we must hit in all case


    if we hit 16 , for four or more cards in that hand , then if the table have more big cards then small cards , then we have to stand even the dealer got 7-A

    "if we hit 15, etc..." Hard to follow exactly what that means.

    then

    "if we hit ... then table has more big than small cards". that is the point where you would want to hit again, not stand, I would think. You would stand if there are lots of small cards on the table, assuming you are just doing table-composition and not counting...

    Which left me mystified... and ... :)
  • beyond14- Just by looking at the cards that are in play you can improve
    your chances quite a bit:

    Here are some plays that include 16 vs 10 as well as 6 others:

    12 vs 4 ...as many small cards as 10's......Hit
    13 vs 2 ....5 more 10's as small................Hit
    16 vs 10...equal/or greater number of 10's vs small............. Stand
    9 vs 2 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    A7 vs 2 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    A8 vs 6 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    11 vs A ....6 more small than 10's ...........Double

    You need to play 3rd base so as to view as many cards as possible.

    The recommendations that SSR gave you learn to count or just play
    basic strategy is just plain wrong

    All of the above are B/S variations. Notice that four are doubles and we
    all know if you are to have a winning session, you need to get and make
    a few extra doubles............................
  • so that involve card counting technique which some exception action should be do ,
    so how about 16 vs 9 and 15 vs 10
    the strategy tell us to surrend such cards in the beginning and loss half bet


    Ray said:
    beyond14- Just by looking at the cards that are in play you can improve
    your chances quite a bit:

    Here are some plays that include 16 vs 10 as well as 6 others:

    12 vs 4 ...as many small cards as 10's......Hit
    13 vs 2 ....5 more 10's as small................Hit
    16 vs 10...equal/or greater number of 10's vs small............. Stand
    9 vs 2 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    A7 vs 2 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    A8 vs 6 ....5 more small than 10's ...........Double
    11 vs A ....6 more small than 10's ...........Double

    You need to play 3rd base so as to view as many cards as possible.

    The recommendations that SSR gave you learn to count or just play
    basic strategy is just plain wrong

    All of the above are B/S variations. Notice that four are doubles and we
    all know if you are to have a winning session, you need to get and make
    a few extra doubles............................
  • what s SSR and B/S stand for , i alwasy see these term here :oops:
  • Most places don't offer surrender....if they do, use it...B/S=basic strategy
  • surrender can just be used in the beginning but not after hitting cards
  • beyond14- We need to close out this question an answer session. I
    suggest that you are in need of a good book on blackjack. My suggestion
    is a book by Renzey, "Blackjack Bluebook II". Amazon.com is a good
    source. Renzey will explain in greater detail every comment or suggestion
    that I have made. His presentation is in a typical engineering style that
    is easy to follow (makes a point...then explains the logic/whys, etc).

    I hope you take this in good faith and don't think otherwise........Ray

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!