$ for card counting class??
  • Without mentioning the site or the group, I have a question.

    There is a famous author that has a class for card counting. He promises to speed you into being an expert in 2 days. This method will give a 1/2 to 1 1/2 edge to the player. The class is kind of expensive $895.

    My questions are

    is it true?

    is it worth it?

    does he really have a true undectable secret?
  • My answers are:





    Read a few books, maybe get some good software, practice alot. That's my advice.
  • dont too much think the power of card counting

    how much money u can afford to lost when u play 10 units each bet and still losing many times until u bankrupt ??
  • I've never attended a course but believe that it is possible to learn the basics in two days. It took me a few weeks to learn KISSIII but it only took my wife one day! So I guess that for some people a short course could be very useful.
  • A short course that costs $900 is NOT useful. There's nothing you could learn that you can't learn from reading knowledgable authors.
  • the main problem is that after just two days, walking into a casino is the kiss of death. You'll make enough mistakes that you have no advantage whatsoever, and lose your socks... and more...
  • I think I know who and the class....The answer is NO

    How does that saying go? "If it sounds too good to be true, it
    usually is".
  • Thanks for the advice it seemed a little too good to be true. But when I saw the Two big name gambling authors it piqued my interest. For your info the website says that this is a system that is unknown to the casino. As well as being undetectable they claim that the new system is very simple.

    As far a reading a book they say they will never publish this. My research also indicated that they have a slightly different basic strategyand there is no calculation regarding the true count necessary.

    I guess i'll save my $800

    Now I just have to decide between studying KISS or KO, Suggestions always appreciated.
  • I'm with Ray here. I am pretty sure that I now know the "system" and authors you are talking about. One has the initials H.T., correct? And the system is "the speed count"? :)

    He knows his stuff, but this counting system is best traded in on pure hi-lo or KO.

    learn to count using a proper system, learn to use it error-free, and you can make money. Trying to find the "easy way out" always fails... every time.
  • Lorenzo -- Regarding your question, I must in full faith and good confidence plug the KISS III over KO. While either will work just fine, I want you to know that in designing KISS, I used KO and Red 7 as my reference bases to take the ball and run from there. My goals were to streamline a level one unbalanced count for maximum ease of use and to optimize its performance within that realm.

    I believe I did accomplish this in four ways. First, "+2 true" unbalanced counts such as KISS and Red 7 have smaller error ranges between their running count and resulting true count than a "+4 true" system such as KO. That is, their running counts are more closely tied to the true count and do a little better overall job of indicating your advantage (or lack of) throughout your operating range.

    Secondly, KISS uses all positive starting counts (IRC's), so that you almost never have to deal with negative running counts. Your Key Count (the point at which you begin raising your bets) is always "20" RC whether the game is double deck, six decks or eight decks -- and will always equal a true count of somewhere between +.8 and +1.8, no matter how deep into the deck or shoe you might be.

    Third, KISS II and III use a structured table of 21 index numbers all activated by their own running counts -- much the same as balanced count systems have (rather than a few grouped hand deviations). Furthermore, once you've become intimately familiar with your index numbers, there are specific instructions on how to "fudge" them to correct what modest error creeps in at various penetration depths. This is as simple as understanding in advance that your Insurance index number of "25RC" becomes "26RC" early in the shoe and "24RC" late in the shoe, along with five other hands that use that same index number.

    Finally, to ease the learning process, there is KISS I, KISS II and KISS III. Players who are not comfortable or particularly dexterous with plus/minus counting can choose to learn KISS I which counts just 3.5 low ranks of cards (4, 5, 6 and black deuce) against 3 high ranks (jack, queen and king). If and when you become comfortable or even bored with that, you can move up to KISS II which simply adds one more low rank and one high rank to your count structure (the 3 and the 10-spot). If you find that an easy task, then you can go to KISS III which adds in the 7 on the low side and the ace on the high side. Right out of the box, KISS III outperforms KO Preferred by .04% and Full Matrix KO by .02% (six deck simulations).

    KISS II by the way, is a potent enough system to use for the rest of your life if you so desire. It is very similar to the Hi Opt I except that it is unbalanced, and thus quite a bit simpler to implement. KISS II underperforms KO Preferred by .02% and Full Matrix KO by .04%.
  • To paraphrase Stanford Wong " Any good counting system will do,the important thing is knowing when to get the money on the table and getting it on the table" (can't remember the exact quote)

    Best of luck-
  • Thanks for the advice. Just ordered Bluebook2 from Amazon.

    Have to admit I was a little surprised to see One of the guys from the speed count class was a co author with Mr Renezy.

    I am sure I will be back here with questions after the booke arrives and I get into it. Thanks in advance
  • speed-count has been around a while. It is very easy to learn. But it gives you a minimal (if any at all depending on the game) edge in most games available today... Particularly shoes. That is the problem... It works, just not real well. You can find discussions about this on various BJ sites from time to time...
  • Lorenzo -- I wrote a poker book at the request of Frank Scoblete for Bonus Books. It is grouped under the name of "Scoblete Get-the-Edge" series along with other books written by other authorities on other games. Frank writes the Forewards for all these books and has his name on the cover along with each author.

    To set the record straight, I would like to say that Frank Scoblete is not a huckster, but a conscientous businessman in the gaming industry, and gambler. He has been using the Hi/Lo for 20 or 30 years. An inventor came to Frank Scoblete with the Speed-Count, showed him that it has advanatge merit, and Frank decided to market it in seminars for serious money.

    I have only a cursory understanding of the Speed-Count's premise and don't feel qualified to comment on its overall potency. But knowing Frank Scoblete, I feel sure it can gain a legitimate edge in the game.

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