question regarding lucky ladies sidebet
  • hey guys im from canada and at the casino nearby they have 2 different sidebets. one is the perfect pairs, and the other is the lucky ladies, both of which are sucker bets and you will lose in the long run on both based on the wizardofodds.com site
    however, what if you were to count, and at high counts (say midway through a shoe, 4 decks left with a +2 true count or higher) bet the lucky ladies sidebet, after all it is based on 10's only, and the payout varies with what type of two 10's your dealt. could you win???

    the rules here are 6-8 decks, dealer stands on all 17's, das, split upto 3 times and usually 1.5-3 decks are cut based on the dealer i guess.
  • acanuck - Lucky Ladies has a house advantage of approximately 22%. It takes a true count of +7 to overcome this edge and have a positive EV for the bet.

    Grifter
  • ACANUCK-
    on Stanford Wongs' website (BJ21.COM) you can join the GREENCHIPPERS, I understand that a member of the greenchippers by the name of Panama Rick sometime ago submitted an article on how to beat Lucky Ladies
    best of luck-
    Prog
  • Where in Canada...

    In Vancouver, all the casinos have 6 deck, Hit soft 17, Late Surrender, Das, no Re-split aces. Most of the new casinos have CSMs (Richmond, Coquitlam, Langley, Downtown) only Burnaby and New Westminster still have hand shuffling. I've started playing down in Washington state where they have decent two deck games.

    By the way, I use Renzey's KISS III count and bet the Lucky Ladies when the running count is '32' or higher.
  • SKUNK-
    I USE KISS III ALSO-DOES THAT WORK OUT PRETTY GOOD FOR YOU BETTING LUCKY LADIES AT 32 OR HIGHER I MEAN?
    PROG
  • hey prog would i have to join that site to get that article??

    im in windsor ontario, casino windsor. its pretty shitty theres the rare 5$ table in the mornings, and all day and night its 10$ a hand and on weekends its minimum 15$ a hand..

    so a true count of +7 and what kind of edge do you have like <1% ?<br />ive been playin there for a while, and ive hit alot of losing streaks lately.. id really like to beat the lucky ladies
  • acanuck-

    I asked the Lucky Ladies advantage question of the GameMaster a while back and here is his response...

    "You're at break-even when the True Count is 6.5 and your edge increases rapidly from that point. For example, at a TC of 8, your expected value is +7%. If you should ever hit a TC of 16, your advantage is nearly 50%.

    No, you don't need to keep a side count of the Qh, but it's not a bad idea.

    GM "

    In a later reply, he noted that if you play 2-deck that you should side count the Queen of hearts because you should probably not play if one is missing (since it's then impossible to get the highest payout)
  • PROG-

    Yes I've been quite successful with Lucky Ladies at ~"32".

    Note that with KISSIII since it is unbalanced you only know the exact true count when the count is 21 (true = +2). At all other running counts the true count varies depending on how many decks remain.

    Here's an example:
    Decks Remaining
    Rc 5 deck 4 decks 3 decks 2 decks 1 deck 0.5 decks
    32 4.2 4.8 5.7 7.5 13 24 True Counts

    You won't usually get a running count of 32 until pretty late in the shoe and this is the criteria I use for the Lucky Ladies. If I get a count of 32 early (with say 5 decks remaining) then wouldn't bet LL unless the count is "45" or higher. But "32" seems like a reasonable estimated time to play LL.

    Here's my cutoffs:

    5 deck remaining: "45" or higher
    4 deck remaining: "40" or higher
    3 deck remaining: "35" or higher
    2 deck remaining: "30" or higher
    1.5 deck remaining: "28" or higher
    1 deck remaining: "26" or higher


    It seems that "32" is a conservative "average" especially since the really high counts rarely occur with 4 - 5 decks remaining.
  • To complete this Lucky Ladies topic...

    There is a count that is specifically designed for the Lucky Ladies... say you and your partner play at the same table one could use your regular count and the other could count the sidebet.

    This is reproduced from the GameMaster...

    "Because the L.L. bet pays on any 20, one must also count Aces and 9s to get the most return, so a count for this bet is not simple. But if you want to pursue it, here are the point values for each card:

    A: -1
    2: +2
    3: +2
    4: +2
    5: +2
    6: +2
    7: +2
    8: +2
    9: -1
    10: -3 (includes 10, J, Q, K, of course).

    This is a balanced count that needs a True Count adjustment to be valid. Make the side bet at a TC of 15 or more.

    This, by the way, is not a bad count when used on its own. It has a half-way decent Betting Correlation and could actually turn a profit at a double-deck game with a 1-10 bet spread. If you do play a DD game, you should keep a side count of the Qh, because when both of them are gone, the count shown above has to be very, very high to warrant making the L.L. bet.

    GM"
  • ACANUCK-
    yes i think you'd have to join the "green chippers'-the site(www.bj21.com) is free.
    Prog
  • Green chip costs about $50/year.
  • I have played blackjack for almost a year


    And i always bet a small amount on perfect pairs, with great success!

    Just yesterday I spent $40 on black jack, and won $280, thanks largely to perfect pairs

    Surely it isnt a sucker bet if you just put 1 or 2$ on it, to add to your 5 or $10 blackjack bet
  • well hey keep playin em.. sometimes people defy the mathematical statistics..
    i sure as hell know that perfect pairs is not profitable in anyway unless you were to somehow count every card that has been dealt and bet when theres alot of a certain card # left to be dealt.

    btw ive been to the casino about 4-5 times this week, brought 100$ each time, playing 5$ and 10$ minimums no bet spread just waiting for a positive count to bet on the ladies. id say im down 3 or 4 hundred.
    sure enough the best count i see is about a +3 true count so i figure ah what the hell i bet the next few rounds on lucky ladies and of course both times, it was a face card followed by a 5 or 6 lol. there was also one hand when the table was full, and out of 8 hands there were only 3 or 4 10's on the board after everyone hit, stood and split, the dealer then precedes to make a 19 from a 6 showing. so some people upped their bet by a good amount for the next few hands, figuring hey the 20's gotta be coming right? nope sure enough a hurricane of stiffs and minimal dealer bustage is seen for the rest of the shoe. god i hate the casino here.. its horrible, i havent really experienced a gradual loss, its either been 7 or 8 hands in a row with a few double downs/splits in there, Lost. when you lose here its terrible

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